Roxie, I'm not talking about visiting a country, but moving to a country. I don't understand why every other immigrant group that moved to the US learned the language, but one group expects the US to adopt their language. I have never understood the logic of that and I would like to have someone explain why one group does not feel that they have a need to learn the language of their adopted homeland. My grandfather moved here from Germany and he did not expect the rest of the country to learn his language or adopt his customs. He learned how to speak English. The same with my wife's ancestors who moved here from the Ukraine. It seems like anytime that anyone brings up this subject it is turned into some sort of racism. For me it is just the opposite. I was an exchange student in Argentina many years ago. I did not expect the Argentines to learn English, but rather, I learned Spanish. Is it pure politics that forces the rest of us to have to pay for products that have to be printed in two languages? My question is why doesn't this one immigrant group learn English? We in the US do not have an official language. We also do not have an official religion. The religion is guaranteed by the Constitution. Language is not. I do not resent anyone else having a different language, but I do find it very insulting that every immigrant group who moved to the US learned the language spoken by most of the US residents. All groups but one. I go back to my original question.....why?
Well, first, your original information is not correct. The spanish population is not the only group that came here and decided to not learn english. If you lived in a diverse area, you would know that. In Boston Public Schools alone, we have to deal with over 10 different languages. I can't have a single conversation if I'm anywhere near chinatown - as many of them don't speak a lick of english. We have a HUGE cape verdian population. I have about 5 students myself who are Albanian (they are the only ones that speak english in their family). And yes - we have a chunk of (non-mexican) spanish. Second, it really depends on the era that you came to the country. When you came here in the 50's and before (your grandparents), your goal was to become an "American" and assimilate into the "American Culture." This included learning the language - the the tune of not ever speaking the native language and not even teaching it to the kids. There are tons of italians in my neighborhood who don't speak english, and even more who do, and wish the kids and grandkids knew italian...but they were the ones that banished the language in the household. These days, it is not necessary to become a white-blooded "Mer-kan" to move to America. Be it through technology or the sheer will of not becoming what much of america stands for, or as a rebellious feature - it is not necessary to let go of your culture and assimilate into "ours." Third - you've tried to learn a language. It's expensive. At times it's frustrating. AND you seem like you're an educated person. Imagine that with a bare minimum education in your original language? And with a need to come her and support a family, or escape the living conditions you were in before. Who has the time? Why should they put such an importance on it because you think they should? The more educated come here and learn english immediately (sometimes before they come here). Just because you don't see those people on the side of the street doesn't mean they don't exist. Fourth - Mexico (and other latin american countries)are the closest ones to here. Therefore, they are the largest immigrant population. Therefore, you see more of them. A LOT of them speak english. Probably more than you believe. But why speak english when you don't need to? Fifth - Just like it makes good business to have damn near everything in Cancun be in English, it makes good business to put things in Spanish. And the street signs and such? Guess what...it wasn't the uneducated and spanish only speaking people who got that stuff passed...it was the educated ones that spoke English. Add to that, depending on where you learned the language - you may be self conscious about it, and not want to speak it. And, to be honest, I feel like we are meaner to people who barely speak english than we are (as a whole) to people who don't speak english. And I never called you a racist...but if the shoe fits. I have more, but I just woke up, and I need to get ready for work!
Roxie thank you for the thoughtful reply. I do understand your points and I think they are very valid. Times have changed and what may have applied forty, fifty or even a hundred years ago does not apply now. I certianly do understand that. However, even today we see many newer immigrants who have learned the language and use it accordingly. My son's wife is Vietnamese. Her parents escaped Vietnam when the North Vietnamese overan Saigon. They came to Houston and learned the language even though Houston has a huge Vietnamese population where they probably could have gotten by without learning the language. My daughter's husband's family is from Lebanon. Same situation, they learned English. We have a very large Yemeni poplulation here in Western NY. They speak English. One of my former employees was Cambodian. She and her parents learned how to speak English. It seems to me the language issue is one of political pandering more than anything else. You'll find many Canadians resent the bi-lingualism forced on them. Go to Quebec City and speak English and see how you are treated. There is a great deal of Anglo/Franco resentment that exists within many areas of Canada. I can see the same thing happening here with the Spanish/English issue. Roxie, you mentioned the term "Melting Pot" when you referred to the US. A melting pot implies that the ingrediants lose their identity when they are put into the melting pot. I don't see that happening in this case. Argentina is another melting pot type of a nation. Spanish is the official language, yet the majority of the population is not Spanish, but rather a conglomeration of English, Italian, and German. All of those groups learned the language and assimilated into the Argentine culture. They may have maintained their ethnic identity at home, but they became Argentine in every way within the community. My concern is that we may end up with something akin to Canada's Parti Quebecois (pardon me if I spelled it wrong) which fosters a separation of the nation based on language. I think that is a very real potential here. Consider the fate of one Randy Cunneyworth. Randy has just recently been promoted to be the head coach of the Montreal Canadiens hockey team. The media wants him fired. The reason.....he doesn't speak French. But wait, Canada has two official languages, French and English. That doesn't seem to matter in Montreal. I can see something similar happening here.
Canada is different - they have two national languages...yet most of the country (save Quebec) adamantly has english on EVERYTHING. Quebec (as a province) has separate rules for so many things (even immigration!!). As a country - they are wholly different from the US. Once again - the US doesn't have a national language. That is the beauty of it - EVERYONE HAS A CHOICE. I thought this was the point of the US?? All these "freedoms" everyone talks about. Except a freedom that bothers you...please...take that away. Sorry if I seem overly sensitive on the subject...but as someone who has future plans to emigrate from the US - I have thought long and hard about learning languages of the country I want to move to. Should I move to México...great...I'm learning spanish. Should I move to Canada (Quebec actually)...uh...there is a limited chance in hell I will learn french. I simply don't like it. Thankfully, that is my decision...no matter who it bothers. Same thing here. It's allowed. And businesses who make you "press one for spanish" are giving their customers the OPTION...which you even said made sense for companies in mexico? Why isn't it an option for businesses here to have the option for people. 99% of the numbers you call have english as their default. I don't see why leaving it open for other people is such a problem?
And for the comment about it being political pandering...I guarantee that most of the things that end up in spanish (signs, etc) are not the result of a politician pandering to the masses....it's likely a dedicated group or individual who has gone through all the motions get it changed. It's a lot of bureaucratic crap to get something like that done. The beauty of the american system - is that you could go through all the bureaucratic crap and get it taken away just as "easily." Why one would want to take things away from others that is, honestly, not hurting them...I'll never know. But it can be done.
English speaking people have about the worst record in the world of learning others languages. Did the English bother to learn Scottish, Irish or Welsh? When the English came to the new world, did they bother to learn any of the native languages? When they took over Spanish speaking and French speaking territories in the New World, did they bother to learn either of those? When they went to India, and other countries, how many learned Hindi, or any of the scores of other native languages in the lands they occupied? The point is that English speaking people are among the world's greatest linguistic imperialists. They are annoyed to hear other languages spoken, and insist that others learn their language, almost anywhere they go. I'm not sure why they feel this way, as a group (the exceptions just prove the rule). Speaking other languages is a given in Europe: not so in England, or the U.S.A., today. It's a habit that dies hard.
Interesting topic 1) When you move to another country as an adult, and then begin to learn another language, it is rare to really develop the native accent, and sometimes with a full time job to maintain a family, there is no time to become absolutely fluent. That means it is much easier to understand the nuances in ones own language, and have government forms in your native language. Grandchildren of immigrants tend to speak with native accents. 2) Yes, Canada is different- I lived in Quebec and loved the differences and disliked them as well- that is a society of 5 million trying to maintain their language in 30 million non-french speakers. 3) I lived in S. America and learned to speak Spanish. I lecture in Spanish. But I still am not as comfortable using the subjunctive mood in Spanish as I am in English. 4) In Vancouver- forget French. 20% of the population are immigrants from SE Asia. Completely different dynamics, but great restaurants!
Instead of griping about the Spanish speakers in our midst (U.S.A.), it would do us all well to learn the Spanish Language, seeing those native speakers as a resource for practice and enhancement of our language skills. Our lack of Spanish has, as much as anything, created a barrier to understanding and enjoying the countries and people of the Latin World, and may have acted as a drag to our developing business with them, given the message it sends when we reject learning their language! It's improbable to the maximum possible degree that Europeans would have an entire continent on their borders in which a different language was spoken, and they have no Desire to learn the language. This is all about attitude, and interest in other people and cultures: most in the U.S. flatly have no interest in anything outside the borders of their country, and will freely tell you so. The degree to which they must live with the presence of another language, and culture, is irksome to them. I teach English as a profession, and the issue of linguistic imperialism does come up, but with this post I'm simply lamenting the loss that is the result of our myopic view of the world.
Now that it's about hockey, here's my opinion I'm from Montreal - West Island. As far as English & French - West side of the island is predominantly English and East is French. That said, I believe there is more bilingual and even trilingual people than there are uni-lingual. Growing up, we spoke whatever language we were most comfortable with and we all understood one another. As far as I'm concerned, the language wars are a 9-5 political play. Outside of the media and politicians, nobody on the island really cares. As far the Habs' English speaking coach... Only the media and politicians make it a big deal. Fans focus on the win record. He's taking his French classes... If he's around for the 2013-14 season, the media will have to find someone else to pick on. Shouldn't be hard, they always seem to manage... The media make the language wars a bigger deal than they actually are. They do it to scratch the separatist's backs, and in return, the separatist's pass legislation allowing media monopolies and tax cuts. When you're the highest taxed province in the country, granting a few tax cuts to control the media is easy. French Police fall into the same political/media category. They can't issue fines unless there's a complaint. Don't piss off a politician or the media and chances are nobody will complain. I think Montreal is diverse enough where people don't really care and understand the rules of the game enough to keep under the radar. What's scary is what is happening to the people that live off island... Without the same diversity of population, culture and media, the main source of information is the shit passed off in the media from the separatists who work hard on keeping them over taxed, under educated and brain washed. What is funny is that the version that gets exported from the province is the image the media creates, which I think is an extremely blurred reality. And I think it gives people who live outside the province a sense that it's a lot worse than it actually is. ...just my opinion of course... Also, while we're on it... Canada does have 2 official languages, but each province has their own mandate. Quebec is a French province. New Brunswick is our only official Bilingual province.
