When will Americans Learn?

Obama got 52% and Romney got 45%....so i think we can safefy say 97% have mental disorders

 

bob your so right - it is an endless argument and neither side will win

here is what I am 100 percent sure of though in all cases..............

if someone were to break into my home and mean harm to me, my family or my friends ...........they will probably need to have on a bullet proof vest if they intend on accomplishing their objective

so to answer the question "when will Americans learn"?

from personal experience - this American learned a long time ago

the best

rob

 

Exactly.........

 

ok everyone that is out there jumping up and down on either side of the guns issue, do your homework before you really start going crazy. It is a complete tragedy about the happening in CT and all over the country with guns and violence but more gun laws may or may not be the answer? What is the right answer? How are we supposed to know where to go in the future?

"Those who do not remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" and "only the dead have seen the end of war", right? The man who said these words, Mr. George Santayana, was a Spanish citizen who called himself an American. He was educated at Harvard and then later returned to become a professor there as well until at age 48 he left the US to live out the rest of his life Europe.

We can take from his words what we will and look to the future but not without remembering the past. For those of you that are looking at the gun as being the cause or the style of the gun being the issue. The "semi-automatic" weapon is not anything new. This you MUST know or learn if you are not familiar with firearms. Contrary to popular belief, news media hype and political bandwagons there is not much difference between the rilfes and pistols used in these massacres than some of the earliest models EVER made. The major difference is "window dressing". They look intimidating, right? Therefore they must be dangerous and only used in the military! Lets take a walk down memory lane to see what history hold for us..... shall we?

Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher (January 30, 1848 – January 20, 1904) was an Austrian engineer and small armaments designer. The first successful design for a semi-automatic rifle is attributed to German-born gunsmith Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher, who unveiled the design in 1885. The Model 95 semi-automatic rifle was gas operated using a slide with the cocking handle on its side and gas piston at its front to operate the bolt, with the recoil spring operating on the slide. Loading was with the Mannlicher packet clip of cartridges inserted into the magazine from the top. These features were also used in the later U.S. M1 Garand rifle.The Model 1900 semi-automatic rifle was also gas operated but used a short stroke piston with a camming lug that engaged the bolt to open it. The bolt was then carried to the rear by momentum with the recoil spring operating on the bolt. The US M1 carbine used a short stroke piston to impart momentum to a slide that opened the bolt, combining features introduced in the Mannlicher Model 95 and Model 100.

Skip ahead to Mr. John Moses Browning, the "father of modern firearms". Born in Ogden, Ut, his designs gave way to the basic principals used in many firearm manufacturers today including Winchester, Colt, Remington, and Savage. (the following is courtesy of the history channel) He was the son of a talented gunsmith and at the ripe old age of 24 received his first patent for a single shot rifle that Winchester manufactured, the model 1885. Fundamentally, all of Browning's manually-operated repeating rifle and shotgun designs were aimed at improving one thing: the speed and reliability with which gun users could fire multiple rounds-whether shooting at game birds or other people. Lever and pump actions allowed the operator to fire a round, operate the lever or pump to quickly eject the spent shell, insert a new cartridge, and then fire again in seconds.

By the late 1880s, Browning had perfected the manual repeating weapon; to make guns that fired any faster, he would somehow have to eliminate the need for slow human beings to actually work the mechanisms. But what force could replace that of the operator moving a lever or pump? Browning discovered the answer during a local shooting competition when he noticed that reeds between a man firing and his target were violently blown aside by gases escaping from the gun muzzle. He decided to try using the force of that escaping gas to automatically work the repeating mechanism.

Browning began experimenting with his idea in 1889. Three years later, he received a patent for the first crude fully automatic weapon that captured the gases at the muzzle and used them to power a mechanism that automatically reloaded the next bullet. In subsequent years, Browning refined his automatic weapon design. When U.S. soldiers went to Europe during WWI, many of them carried Browning Automatic Rifles, as well as Browning's deadly machine guns.

(wikipedia) In 1903 and 1905, the Winchester Repeating Arms Company introduced the first semi-automatic rimfire and centerfire rifles designed especially for the civilian market. The Winchester Model 1903 and Winchester Model 1905 operated on the principle of blowback in order to function semi-automatically. Designed entirely by T.C. Johnson, the Model 1903 achieved commercial success and continued to be manufactured until 1932 when the Winchester Model 63 replaced it.

By the early 20th century, several manufacturers had introduced semi-automatic .22 sporting rifles, including Winchester, Remington, Fabrique Nationale and Savage Arms, all using the direct blow-back system of operation. Winchester introduced a medium caliber semi-automatic sporting rifle, the Model 1907 as an upgrade to the Model 1905, utilizing a blowback system of operation, in calibers such as .351 Winchester. Both the Models of 1905 and 1907 saw limited military and police use.

In 1906, Remington Arms introduced the "Remington Auto-loading Repeating Rifle". Remington advertised this rifle, renamed the "Model 8" in 1911, as a sporting rifle. This is a locked-breech, long recoil action designed by John Browning. The rifle was offered in .25, .30, .32, and .35 caliber models, and gained popularity among civilians as well as some law enforcement officials who appreciated the combination of a semi-automatic action and relatively powerful rifle cartridges. The Model 81 superseded the Model 8 in 1936 and was offered in .300 Savage as well as the original Remington calibers.

Now for those of you unaware of what this means is that over 120years has gone by and we are just starting to jump up and down about semiautomatic firearms? Don't get confused and follow along here comes the interesting parts. The .22 caliber rifle most commonly used for target practice and squirrel hunting is considered a "small arms" weapon. Now the "DEADLY!" AR-15, that uses a .223 caliber bullet. So what is the difference?.... 1/1000 in size. Something not much bigger than what is used to kill squirrels was used in hundreds of people.

(wikipedia) The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire rifle for the United States armed forces. Because of financial problems, ArmaLite sold the AR-15 design to Colt. The select-fire AR-15 entered the US military system as the M16 rifle. Colt then marketed the Colt AR-15 as a semi-automatic version of the M16 rifle for civilian sales in 1963.[8] Although the name "AR-15" remains a Colt registered trademark, variants of the firearm are independently made, modified and sold under various names by multiple manufacturers.

SO... If I am understanding this right, the AR-15 has been in the civilian market since 1963??? Holy crap!! Why was there not the uproar in the 1960's about semi-automatic weapons? or what about the 1970's? So at this point we are approaching almost 100years without incident involving mass shootings? How about the St. Valentines day massacre?

If we had not invented the gun how skilled would we have gotten with the bow & arrow? The world record is a man shooting 6 arrows at 1 time hitting 6 different targets. What would be the difference here? This instance the shooter would be moving silently and possibly would be able to take the life from many more people.

Guns are one of the single best and also worst inventions in human history. Much like the atom bomb, is it something we wish we could uninvent? Without the knowledge and things we have learned from the inventions that these people have come up with how are we to be able to continue moving forward?

So follow the link and read the article about mass shootings. Let's not be so quick to blame the guns, the manufacturers, laws, or even the society. Lets start to take a long hard look at the will and desperation of an individual, that if they have the means and the willingness to carry out such a deviant and desperate act, that there is little to be able to do to stop them.

Mass Shootings Have Long History : Discovery News

 

which is the scarier thought....

that we are not allowed to protect ourselves, our families, our property and our homes from idots like Breivik, Anders Behring, Hamilton, Thomas Watt, Steinhäuser, Robert, Kretschmer, Tim, Bird, Derrick, Dornier, Christian,

factual note here:
yes I know these names are probably not recognizable to most - this is because these people and hundred upon hundreds more are not americans and their massacres did not happen in the gun happy good old boy usa

or is it a scarier thought that we give away our guns to the state so that they can be the ones to protect us from these idiots?

ill share my answer soon

what I do know for a fact is random massacre crimes happen all over the world. no country is immune from them....yes omg - even countries with strict gun laws..........I know who would have thunk it the way everyone on the other side of the fence reacts every time there is a crime here............so any rational argument for the case that gun control eliminates or even diminishes random massacre style shootings is not only completely ignorant and highly hypocritical... but more that likely just plain ass stupid!!

now, granted there is a place where we all can agree things should be done to prevent these massacres but gun control is not the answer in and of itself and the sooner we realize this and work on real solutions to the problem - the more effectively we can begin the process of eliminating random massacres..........not only in the wild west gun toting yippe ki yay mut%$^&*() US of A where idiots run amuck 24/7

...but in every other "sacred" and "perfect" location on the planet as well

so

until it gets figured out - between the two scarier options (a) me having a gun to protect myself from the idots listed above and their like and (b) the state having a gun to protect me from me the idiots above and their like

ill take me and my insurance policy against f'n idiots (my ruger) every day of the week as the safer of the two scary options

 

So let's think about this for a minute. Several have said only military and governments need semi-automatic weapons. I can't believe that so many are willing to give up the right to defend themselves and others for the hope that the police or some other government official will come to their rescue in their time of need.

If I or one of many other law abiding citizens were in Sandy Hook, Columbine, or the CO theater, along with my legally concealed weapon, the outcome would have been different. I'm not saying we could have stopped all the deaths, but we would have had a chance to do so and could have possibly saved lives.

I'd put a practiced shooter, familiar with his weapon, such as myself, up against a perp which is most likely mentally unstable and not an accomplished shooter, anytime.

Just my 2 cents, but it will be a cold day in hell when I decide to completely give up the means by which I can protect my family and myself from others wishing to do us harm.

 

shocking to me as well

?

rob

 

im canadian and going to soon be looking at arming myself to protect my family home invasions are on the rise everywhere and i would kill anyone trying to harm my family

 

Exactly. Guns aren't the problem. We need to focus more on mental health instead.

The same day of the Sandy Hook school shooting.... do you know there was a man in China who went into an elementary school and STABBED 22 children? Stabbed. That takes emotion and deep deep disturbance from within. Not a simple pull of a trigger.

Did anyone hear about it? NOPE. The media is biased. They are TRYING to instill gun laws so they are trying to make guns look as bad as possible.

3 days or so AFTER Sandy Hook, a man went into a restaurant and started shooting it up. Some of the people fled into the movie theater next door. The killer followed the people into the theater and tried to kill people but someone WITH a gun shot and killed the guy. Did we hear about this either? Not from the news most likely!!!

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Taking guns away will only make them resort to other means.

 

I actually wouldn't have a problem with banning guns if the same people who pass the laws had to follow them as well. If ALL officials from mayors to the President weren't allowed to exempt themselves this debate would be entirely diffent. Dianne Finestein talked openly about how she used to carry. Now she doesn't feel the need, so I guess no one else should either.

The same goes for Obamacare, which they also exempted themselves from.