rdubnpk More importantly, it is simply NOT WORKING. It doesn't matter how many people are put in jail, the flow of drugs hasn't stopped, period. How does it, therefore, make any sense to keep jailing people when the problem isn't in any way being solved?
The economies are intertwined.. at least in the sense that they all depend on money going out of the US.... either by trade or remittances. The idea of a union suggests free travel between union members but I think we all know how most American's would feel about unrestricted travel on the Southern border. So I just don't see it happening. The US and (British) Canada could probably do it today without too much fuss but that's as far as I can see it going...
Like I said above.. do you then stop jailing people for murder because jail hasn't stopped murderers? No. Jail is not there to be a deterrent. It's there to be a punishment and hopefully a rehabilitation center. Inmates should be receiving an education up to highschool graduate and learning some form of trade.
I think if there was the choice between unrestricted travel in N America or the USA going bankrupt I'm sure they'd pick the former choice.
In my mind there is a pretty noticeable difference between cold blooded murder and smoking a joint... there has to be some common sense involved.. and that's lacking in many US courts where murderers sometimes get less jail time than the guy who was growing a marijuana plant or had the 17 and 3/4 years old girlfriend. I thought they were there to separate people from the rest of society... Great in theory... but seeing as how the prisons are bursting at the seems its a bit hard to actually do anything more than warehouse people.
If you're only talking about marijuana then lets be realistic here. What's the difference between being caught drinking and driving and being caught stoned and driving? The police have a test for drinking and driving. Until they can test it they won't make it legal. It's that simple. If they can send robots to Mars I'm sure they can figure out how to educate the prison population. It just takes someone who has the power to change things and wants to. People have done it. Maybe not in a prison but it's been done. Inner city crap holes turned around through schooling. Joe Clark comes to mind.
certainly didn't for the helpless bannana .... BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | 'Bendy bananas' win UK reprieve
Keeping impaired people from getting behind the wheel is a different issue from whether we should try a different approach to dealing with human beings Desire to get high, using whatever means is available. You can criminalize the one, without applying criminal sanctions to the other. To get beyond this issue, I'd rewrite the law to make it a crime to drive with demonstrable physical or mental impairment, from any cause, sufficient to prevent one from being a safe operator. Proof comes in many forms: police have long used their own personal observations, videotapes and such things as blood tests to establish- directly or indirectly- this level of impairment. The war on drugs having been a miserable failure, and in addition to resulting in a huge waste of human talent, such as it may be, from hundreds of thousands being incarcerated, it has directly resulted in the establishment, worldwide, of hugely powerful drug mafias who daily exert their negative influences on society, while whatever evils drug use itself may visit on us remain. It's time to try a completely different approach, I'd say.
EXACTLY my point.. how can some mind altering drugs be perfectly legal when they cause countless deaths and injuries every minute of every day, while others are forbidden... one is "worse" than the other you might say... ok... I submit to you that guy "A" who just downed 8 beers is more of a danger and nuisance than guy "B" who took one dose of "whathaveyou"... Guy "A" gets stopped by the police while walking and gets a ride home or a few hours to sober up and then he's let go without charge. Guy "B" will be charged with a felony, loss his job, spend a several years in prison, spend every last dime he has to defend himself, be locked away from his wife and babies, and be forever stained as a convict when he is finally released from the ordeal... likely exiting the prison more violent and less able to benefit society than when he went in... and even then he'll be put on probation/parole so that if he so much as jaywalks he'll risk going back to prison.... does that make sense to you and seem like it's for the betterment of society? Police everywhere (except maybe Mexico) know how to spot altered people.. and there are blood, breath, urine, and skin moisture tests for all sorts of things that have quick results, so I don't buy that argument. Let's do a pro/con of legalizing them today in the US... Cons: Possible spike in use.. (IMHO not likely, those who want to do them are already doing them and being illegal must not have much deterrent effect.. if anything being illicit makes them more exciting and desirable) Possible increase in drug use related death... (see above, I doubt you'll see noticeable increases in real world numbers, public acknowledgment of use may go up but I doubt actual numbers will...I'd bet the opposite 10 years post legalization, with large reductions in use and abuse) Kids will do them... (ahemm.. like they don't already?) Add your other cons.. I'm having a hard time seeing them right now.... Pros: Overnight elimination of drug production, transport, and distribution related violence and crime. Police free to go after other criminals... (you know... the ones who rob, rape, and murder...) MASSIVE reduction in incarcerated people in the US... (just think of all the money we'll save and add all those people back to the tax paying ranks) Regulated and taxed drugs... (prevent tainted supplies and generate much needed tax income, which in turn can be used to treat addiction and teach abuse prevention) Reduction of violence in middleman and supplier countries... (like Mexico...) I'm sure there are others but I can't think of them this early... All that said... do I think it will happen?.. NO, no I don't.. I think the US will keep going until every man, woman, and child are incarcerated because the country is run by corrupt, money hungry, idiots and the public at large are sheep too brainwashed and ignorant to realize what's going on... being "on the outside" has really changed me, and I realize now how brainwashed people really are by the media and politicians in the US.
Life, though it makes perfect sense to me to try a new approach, I seldom meet anyone who agrees. My opinion is the level of control would have to be just as strong as it is now, but with the criminal sanctions removed from certain acts which are now crimes: the "state" would be highly involved in regulating the conditions under which drugs would be made available, and to whom, while removing the incentives, insofar as possible, to turn to non state sanctioned alternatives. The exact details would be complex, but bright people could work it out, given the freedom and the means to do so.
