Rivergirl, thanks for checking on that. ____________________ Cancungringa wrote: Hi, Gringa. Some people might read this to say you based your application on the existence of this business, and this activity, instead of your bank account. That wasn't the case, was it? Many people are doing just as you do, Gringa, and have been doing so for years, but it could raise both immigration and tax issues for some, if it were mentioned to INM, or SAT.
V - I meant to say I qualify for the rentista as opposed to needing a work visa. As far as immigration and tax issues with SAT and INM - nope. I explained exactly what I do to the consulate when I first got the FM3, even that I am paid by a Mexican company, and they said that because I could do this work from anywhere, and my business is registered and taxed in the U.S., I didn't need a work visa and I am not considered as working in Mexico. Every time I renew, my bank statements clearly show my source of income as wire transfers coming in from a Mexican company, and it's not an issue. For example, if I were a web designer living in the U.S. or Thailand or Italy or wherever and had a Mexican company as a client neither INM nor SAT would be involved. The consulate said that doesn't change just because I happen to live here in Mexico, except that I need an immigration status (FM3 rentista) showing an outside source of income.
Thanks, Gringa, for going into that extra detail for us, that was very kind of you. But, I don't understand the reference to "outside" source of income. Outside of what, being that you live and work in Mexico? Can it really be that money, earned in Mexico and paid by a Mexican company to a U.S. bank account, before being repatriated, is considered an "outside" source of income? Is it possible that INM is just that incurious when going over a renewal of the FM3 Rentista status and, for that reason, the question has not been asked?
Well, I think I'll go with the Mexican consulate in the U.S., fully aware of the details, as the official source of what is considered working here and what is not, not to mention Mauricio Mendoza's agreement on it (former boss, I believe, in IMN here). I take the "outside" source of income conclusion by the consulate and INM to mean that I am not entering the job market here. It's one business (mine) providing a service to another business (that happens to be in Mexico) that I would continue doing as my source of income no matter where in the world I live. In any case, we aren't qualified to try to interpret immigration law here. My intent in posting was to tell the poster, BoaterGirlKim, that it's possible in some cases to be in Mexico, and working, without being categorized as "working in Mexico" when applying for an FM3.
It's been nice of you, Gringa, to share these details with us, and your thoughts on it. I'm happy for anybody who can navigate the laws to achieve the best balance in life for themselves, which you seem to have managed. What you've described is working in a self-employed capacity on the territory of Mexico, so in that sense it's true that you did not enter the job market, which would present a little clearer case of needing permission to work. You apparently do have one or more Mexican clients, so you are competing for business with Mexicans, and Mexican companies, who perform same or similar services, while living on the territory of Mexico. ____________________ There is a visa for the working, self-employed foreigner, which I've talked about on another thread and gives permission to solicit business in Mexico, but the core idea of the Rentista visa is that the holder is financially self-sufficient. To get it, the applicant must state in a letter addressed to INM that they intend to rely on resources from outside the country with which to pay their living expenses, should they apply for this visa, in Mexico. As for the result you achieved, it speaks for itself.
Gringa's situation fits my understanding of the law here. She's not working here, technically, because her business is virtual. She is not in the workforce in Mexico. Her virtual business, which is a legal tax-paying entity in the US, can invoice a Mexican company and can accept payment from that company, just as it could with a company in any other country. Just because her payments come from a Mexican company does not mean she's working in Mexico.
That's certainly true, Rivergirl. What means she's working in Mexico, is that she is physically present and performing the services she gets paid for, in Mexico. I consider that it may be possible to do this without specific permission to work, here. If the OP works for a U.S. company, and she does not solicit business in Mexico, I personally know of no reason she couldn't do this work, here, without specific permission to work. She might also be able to apply for a Rentista visa, making it clear that none of the resources on which she relies will be coming from Mexico- given that you must make a declaration to that effect when applying for this visa (at least under the procedure followed, in country). __________________ As everyone understands, I think, we're just sharing some thoughts and ideas about these subjects: this is a forum, and everything said has to be taken with that in mind. For those looking for legal advice, a good local lawyer has been mentioned earlier on this thread. As has been previously pointed out, many people are living and working here, under a number of different arrangements: what works, works: nothing said here by me is meant to disturb anyone's dinner.
Thanks everyone for the advice and exchange. As I mentioned, I'm an employee of both organizations, paid off W-2s with federal and state taxes deducted (from my salaried tech writing job), FICA and Medicare (other job - statutory employee status, the IRS designation for employees who work at home for the convenience of their employer so I pay my own fed & state, a common status in the medical transcription field). Neither organization does business in Mexico, and both provide solid income streams so there's no need for me to solicit or start my own business. Working from home 10 miles away from the office or working thousands of miles away is seamless as long as I have Internet and a phone line. I want to be as above board as possible, and if the question is "will working my current jobs in Mexico take jobs from Mexican citizens" then it sounds like I'm okay. Mauricio was mentioned to me in PM and I've noted some postings about him in other threads - sounds like I'll be contacting him soon Again, I appreciate the exchange - evaluating differing perspectives will certainly better inform my decisions! Kim
NAFTA, doing business in Mexico OP, as you suggested earlier, having a significant sum on deposit from which you can make withdrawals to support yourself, and the last three statements from your bank showing the existence of this money, is the cleanest way to present your potential self-sufficiency in an application for a Rentista visa, should you decide to apply for one. This avoids the issues of where the money is coming from, altogether. Mexico welcomes people who can come here and live on their own resources and puts few barriers in the way. In any case, Mauricio can help you navigate the choices available to you and achieve the result you would find the most advantageous, in your case. To contact him most expeditiously, I suggest you call him on the phone, rather than relying on email. ___________________ Working here, taxes here Americans and Canadians, at least, can actively solicit business for their foreign employers/companies owing to the provisions of NAFTA. Others may do so by declaring a business purpose when entering the country. While this is working on the territory of Mexico, it is temporary and permitted without specific permission to work. It seems to me that one enters a gray area when one is both 1) in residence here, and 2) soliciting Mexican business, unless one has a visa status such as to permit it. As I mentioned on another thread, there are a number of ways to get permission to work in Mexico. If one is self-employed, there is an FM3 for that (Susan has mentioned having that: I also have that type of FM3). If you have a company, you can apply for, and get permission to work for your company, in Mexico, and there is an FM3 for that. Many people will prefer not to do either of these, as it then locks you into the system of Mexican Taxation, and INM will review your last three months' tax declarations, each year, as part of the renewal process for the visa. Americans working in Mexico can often be found doing a tax "two-step", 1) maintaining that they are not subject to Mexican Taxation on their income earned in Mexico- for any number of reasons- while, at the same time, 2) claiming physical presence or bona fide foreign residence in Mexico in all representations to U.S. Tax Authorities so as to be able to exclude the first $93,000 of income from U.S. income taxation on earnings they will report as having been foreign earned. In doing so, they put themselves between two taxing jurisdictions, and largely avoid paying income taxes in either. _______________ There is another, perhaps little enforced, provision of Mexican Law that could, at some point, come into play in these situations, which I'll just mention in passing. Like that of many jurisdictions, Mexican Tax Law provides that it applies to anyone who is physically present on the territory of Mexico 180 days out of any 365. Although it would allow the government to reach many who are not currently being taxed, I've not personally met anyone to whom this provision has been applied, so it remains a theoretical issue, only, so far as I know.
Oh, c'mon... Yes it is. I find it impossible to believe that both the IRS and SAT would have such gaping loopholes, not to mention INM or SAT even consulting someone on what they "maintain" their status should be. And even if such an unlikely two-step loophole did exist, I doubt it would exempt anyone from at least self-employment tax in the U.S., putting them on the IRS radar for an audit. Your attempts (sometimes outright, sometimes thinly veiled) to use me as an example of someone who should not be here on the FM3 rentista (as well as innuendo about tax evasion) are based entirely on conjecture and, well, an arrogant notion that you are more qualified to interpret Mexican immigration or tax law than a Mexican consulate, INM, an immigration attorney or SAT. FYI: I am in Mexico only part-time. INM has said I could also be here on a tourist visa if that's what I wanted. I solicit business outside of Mexico for a fairly large Mexican company (with strict procedures in place to satisfy their requirements with SAT and INM) that will pay anyone (Mexican or foreign, business or individual, physically in Mexico or not) who can do so successfully. With that, I'm done with reading this thread which has, like so many threads on this board in which you participate, had all the enjoyment sucked out of it. Flame on!
