The US already effectively has immigration checkpoints all over the place. If you take an Amtrak train or ride a Greyhound bus on an overnight journey which goes anywhere close to a US border (I think it's within 75 miles of a border, and the edge of the great lakes counts as a border in this case) then you can expect ICE to board and check people's papers. Afaik every security checkpoint in every airport in the US is now manned by TSA, and TSA agents have some training in detecting illegal immigrants. And TSA will call ICE as soon as they suspect someone is illegal. So TSA is busting illegals. What's missing in the US, in some states, is to bring the police into immigration enforcement. In Mexico the security checkpoints in Mexican airports are manned by private security companies (they get paid next to nothing, and have HIGH job turnover). The don't have training, or much training, in detecting anything about people's documents. They seem to be trained only in annoying people and in unzipping things. You are right, Mexico ALREADY has local, state and federal police involved in immigration enforcement. And it causes all kinds of horrible incidents for immigrants whose papers are not in order, or who do not have their papers with them. The PFP at the Cancun Airport recently busted an immigrant woman who was in the country legally. She's a celebrity in Mexico and works for a major TV network here (she also is a Playboy Mexico model, we googled and found all kinds of naked photos of her). She was here in Cancun on vacation. She didn't bring her FM3/2 on vacation. She was approached by PFP at the gate while she was waiting for her flight back to DF. When she couldn't produce her FM3/2 they arrested her. Once they'd done that INM couldn't let her go until a whole pile of paperwork was seen to, and until she produced evidence she was in the country legally. They ended up holding her for something like 12 hours. She missed her flight and the prominent politician who was escorting her had to fly home alone (this after he tried bribing the cops to let her go and it didn't work, you didn't hear this from me). The lesson is do not leave the area without evidence you are here legally. Mexico's immigration policies are more restrictive, in some ways, than those in the US. Mexico is already a police state in many ways, so checkpoints on roads are normal here. But it can also be argued that it's far easier to get permission to live in Mexico legally than it is in the US. Mexico doesn't have the kind of quota system that the US has which makes it effectively impossible for regular people of certain nationalities to emigrate legally to the US (without marrying a US citizen). I understand your point about Mexico being hypocritical when it argues against the AZ immigration law. But it's much easier to comply with Mexico's immigration laws for most people. And Mexico has specifically decriminalized illegal presence, whereas many states in the US are looking at criminalizing it. If you look closely at how Mexico has been adjusting the way it applies its immigration laws I think you will see it's been trending toward making their application more humane, for the most part (of course they are still doing all kinds of things wrong and stupidly). While the US is definitely going in the other direction these days and is applying the law against illegal immigrants with greater and greater harshness. I think some of this stems from the fact that Mexico began with a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment embedded in its laws (we don't have the freedom of speech here to protest the Govt, ahem). The US began with a lot of pro-immigrant sentiment in its laws. So Mexico is gradually getting nicer. And the US is gradually becoming harsher. At least that's my understanding of things. And I don't care how hypocritical someone is so long as they protest that law in AZ, it's just wrong.
I completely agree. And when the US faces and solves this problem lots of Mexico's drug war violence issues will disappear. But I'm not holding my breath that this will get addressed soon.
It does appear that way, RG, but perhaps the U.S. is overreacting, after years of benign neglect in this area: I understand there were, until recently, whole industries (like meat packing) which routinely employed large numbers of illegal aliens to fill the ranks of those needed to process all the meat Americans consume. Perhaps, after some years of getting back to business about enforcing its immigration laws, the U.S. will find the proper balance. The U.S. and Mexico have a complex history: we bit off a big chunk of Mexico in the 1800s and, along with it, a lot of Mexicans, Mexican history and Mexican culture: Texas, and perhaps other border states, routinely publish all government documents in both Spanish, and English; and, it is the death of Mexican schoolboys in Mexico City- at the hands of U.S. soldiers during the U.S. invasion and conquest of Mexico- that is memorialized everywhere, here, with "Los Ninos Herores" named streets, monuments, etc. I'm just grateful that Mexicans are generally willing to let bygones be bygones....
Just two quick comments: 1) I would never consider renouncing my US citizenship for all the reasons expressed by other posters here. 2) No one seems to mention the most obvious problem with the Arizona law; Immigration, immigration law and immigration law enforcement are set within the Constitutional responsibilities of the Federal Government, and is a set of powers NOT granted to the States. Can you imagine the chaos if each and every border state enacted their own immigration law? I would imagine that after the noise dies down and some poor US citizen of Hispanic background endures some tragedy while being detained because he wasn't carrying the right papers, like getting his wife to the hospital or seeing his mother before she dies, that this will wind its way to the Supreme Court and be smacked down, as it deserves to be. BTW, Arizona's claim that after "detection" ICE or some other federal agency would be contacted, so it remains a Federal matter, is some of the most convoluted BS reasoning I've ever read.
Well, thats news to me.. and must be a more recent development. I used to ride all over several years back when that had the flat-rate anywhere prices (which beat the pants off of flying so long as you weren't in a hurry or too uppity to travel by bus) and never once encountered a check while riding all through Texas and the Gulf coast.
I kind of doubt it, but it would be nice. US Immigration has never stopped doing immigration raids on businesses. And having actual, trained immigration officers enforce immigration laws is fine by me. But it's a whole other issue when regular police forces go out and enforce immigration laws, they don't have the training to do that well and they often violate people's rights when they try. In the example I gave above, of the PFP arresting an immigrant who was in Mexico legally, if INM had stopped that woman in the airport (which they could have) the agent would have interviewed her about her status, and the agent could have used discretion in determining whether her claim that she was here legally likely held merit. INM was very annoyed at having to detain her for 12 hours, and she was certainly annoyed too. The only reason she was detained was because the police made a bad call. If they'd called INM first, and let INM do the interview she would not have been arrested. And without the arrest INM would not have been forced, by law, to detain her. Because the police are not trained in immigration enforcement, and aren't authorized to make immigration calls, this woman was taken into custody when she should not have been. Police see things in black and white terms. For the police a guy who is guilty of illegal presence is going to be treated the same as someone guilty of some kind of crime. But illegal presence shouldn't be a crime, it's an immigration violation, and it should be enforced and punished by immigration, and only immigration. I disagree that the US has been lax and hasn't been enforcing its immigration laws. I think that's inaccurate. Part of what's happened is that since 9/11 the US govt has faced internal pressure to treat immigrants more harshly. And with the economic downturn the issue of immigrants stealing jobs has been highlighted. And yet the rest of the world hasn't gotten the memo so immigrants from all over the world keep going to the US to live, by any means possible. Human smugglers afaik have not faced a downturn in their business even while the world's economies have struggled. So you have lots of people in the US illegally and lots of pressure "to do something about it." But is stopping people in the street and checking their papers the right thing to do? Is having police enforce immigration laws the right thing to do? I was raised to understand that immigrants make the US stronger, they bring new ideas and diversity in and make the human stew richer. The US doesn't need to draw harsher lines that make immigrants "bad," it needs to go back to its "melting pot" roots and remember that regular influxes of immigrants throughout history is exactly why the US is as powerful and innovative as it is. People emigrate to escape something. They should not be punished for that, even if their escape involves violating laws. My own ancestors came to the US to escape harsh treatment and starvation in the UK (some came on the Mayflower, and some came to escape the potato famine in Ireland). How is that any different from a family who, to escape violence and underemployment in Mexico, goes to the US? It's not! Immigration violations should not be treated as crimes. In my mind it's that simple.
It's new, since 9/11. Google for "Amtrak immigration checks" or "Greyhound immigration checks" and the like. You will find press releases from Homeland Security showing how proud they are of busting all these sleeping people on trains and buses. Illegal immigrants in the US cannot freely travel long distances, they cannot get on airplanes, buses or trains without worry that their trip will lead to deportation. If you ask me there's already too much immigration enforcement in the US. If you want to make US borders stronger, go right ahead, but enforcement inside the country, on public transit, just makes me sick.
ICE already regularly deports US citizens "by accident." Or on purpose in the case of children who get deported with their illegal parents. And it doesn't make headlines. I'm not confident it will make headlines until that citizen happens to be a US Senator or a celebrity or something (but the chances of it happening are much smaller if the person has some kind of social power or standing). Because Immigration enforcement isn't regular law enforcement (and I don't think it should be regular law enforcement), it's outside of the regular channels of justice. An immigrant who is detained (in the US or in Mexico) isn't entitled to any phone calls. And often their attorneys or family members or Consulates have a helluva time even getting confirmation that they have been detained. Immigration enforcement in both countries needs to be FAR more transparent. It also needs far more input from human rights groups.
It was post 9/11 that I was doing my bus traveling.. but perhaps it didn't go full force until recent years.
Yeah, I have no idea. I just know it's in place now. Though there may be places in the country where they don't do it? I have no idea how evenly it's enforced. Might be one of those things that is enforced more at times when lots of agents aren't busy with other things? Or maybe they do it for a while and get some press and then take a break? I have no idea.
