OK, I've got some, mainly because we've bought a condo. Plumber replaces two emergency cut off valves for water because they don't work; then, cements the tile cover in place, so there is no access to them. This is just one, tiny example of what we've encountered in getting things done around our new place. Is there a culturally based resistance to thinking things through...? Here's another, recent example. Company is contracted to replace screens in windows. Four workers arrive, and begin removing the windows so they can get at the screens. They have to borrow a tool from us, because they don't have the right one for the job; then, after getting one window apart, they discover they don't have any replacement screen with them, either....
It's a weird cultural trait for sure. We do things at work all the time that me and the other "foreigners" know are wrong. Then later we do it again a bit less wrong, then we try and cover up the wrongness with a bit more wrong, then move on to something else. DIY is the king here. If you want it done right first time, do it yourself or hire a gringo. I could give a thousand examples of people not thinking it through but I won't because I'm sure we've all been there and plus it just "gets my goat" :biggrinbandit:
Is what V talking about really a cultural thing, or just plain stupidity and lack of thinking? I know so many smart and creative Mexicans that it's kind of offensive to hear (read) those examples being linked to a culture, when it's more of laziness that is not shared by all.
I hear what Tori's saying... I've had Mexican workers at my house and never had any issues with things being done incorrectly or without thought. At the same time, I can attest to the fact that at Mat and my office, we do things that will so obviously backfire a few months down the road, and the non-Latin American team (us) seems to be the only people to notice something's amiss. If we bring it up we're completely ignored. When things DO backfire, our boss and coworkers can't seem to make the connection to the previous mistake. It's eerie and somewhat worrying. But oh well. I don't think it's stupidity... my guess is that it has to do with the "time is fluid" concept here in Latin America. They do what seems best at the moment (like cementing V's tile cover in place so it will look nice today), without worrying about the future.
The lack of planning is incredible. On our street, the potholes are filled with sand, gravel, pieces of old concrete etc. Then there are 3 guys, slapping the hell out of the "filling" for 2 hours... 10 mins later it starts to rain(not even the monster-rain we get from time to time..) and taa-daa! The potholes are back And as a bonus, the street is now muddy like hell, and each and every singe neighbor has to wash their cars. One got her tires popped, since some of the concrete parts had rebar(!) sticking out... This is for the entire 4 years Ive lived in Cancun. My neighbor simply says: "Well, at least the Hotel Zone grass is evenly cut...", laughing about the funds going there, rather than getting properly divided. Dont get me started on plumbers, "electricians" etc. Last week, a friend hired an electrician to set up her ceiling fans in her new condo in the HZ. The dude sticky taped them(!) to the ceiling, and slapped some paint over the tape to make it look nice. Needless to say, all 4 fans came down within 1 hour. Thats when she noticed, haha I have found that its a million times easier to just get it all done yourself. Cheaper, you get it the way you want it and most importantly: You dont have to sit with your fingers crossed, hoping that the worker/s will A: Turn up at all, B: Be on time and C: Be sober. In the beginning I kind of laughed about it all, but now it just annoys the hell out of me. I did experience a lot similar when living in Thailand, but comparing the infrastructure, it was WAY more understandable there. Also, I can vouch for V´s experience with builders, plumbers and the "guy with the window blinds", hehe. Seen it first hand.
Definitely risky to say it's to any degree attributable to culture, but to point to individual exceptions- which naturally come to mind- is just to make the point for me, in a way. This is a topic I take up with my students, who are habitually late for class. I tell them that to overcome many of the economic woes that afflict Mexico (I teach International Business English) it will be necessary for those who wish to do better to overcome whatever cultural influences are at work which may tell them it's OK to perform below the standard of their personal best and, as an example, to be a little late for class. I tell them, and enforce, that a 9 AM start time for class means 9 AM, and in return of the favor I'm always there, ready to begin at 9 AM and ready to end the class at or before the scheduled time. We can find lots of individual differences in any society, but some people will simply refuse to respond to cultural norms for behavior they consider beneath their personal standards, while some societies set a standard that is difficult for its members to ever attain (as German society may do); but, although it's risky to speak about culturally based differences, it doesn't strike me as illegitimate to notice and reflect on them, at times. __________________________
Maybe I know a whole handfull of different type of Mexican. Those I know are not late for work or any time we are to meet up. When it comes to work they either lose days off or commissions if even 1 min late. They are very thorough when doing tasks and the long term end result is what's important. Even a friend of mine and fellow poster on here has a handyman that they are absolutly inlove with. He is on time and gets things done right...and cheap. Glade I have yet to encounter the types you all have. I hope it stays that way. On a side note, I know tons of Americans that are just as you all explain...Lazy, in the moment and non productive.
I think it is a cultural difference Tori and in no way do I mean it to be offensive. Look at the lack of planning throughout the whole structure of society and you'll find it hard to disagree. Look at the way things are "fixed" here - a temporary botch job is often acceptable. Obviosuly there are exceptions to the rule as there are in every society. I would stand by my argument that in the main Mexicans don't think things right the way through and "rigid" planning is not as important to them. We can see this in time keeping, organizing parties etc. Is this a bad thing? Well sometimes it is bad for me, but Mexican people don't seem bothered by it, so it must be acceptable behavior here, in which case because I live here I must get used to it and accept it as the norm. Cultural traits exist in all societies, no society or culture is perfect in everyones eyes. Please don't get offended though, as no offense was intended, it was meant in a very light hearted manner.
Although Mexicans sometimes allow themselves considerable leeway on punctuality, they don't necessarily appreciate this when it's practiced by others. This anomaly appears on questionaires I give my students, asking them to ID qualities they think they possess, they would like to see in others, and those which a boss might like to see in them. They acknowledge that they don't at all appreciate it if they make an arrangement to meet, and their friends don't show on time, or at all! In a field investigation assigned to my students, recently, one of them reported that, although their group had fixed a time and place to meet, she was the only one of five that appeared, as planned, requiring the whole effort to get together be rescheduled, and repeated. Examples like this become useful tools in reinforcing the point that- in business- inefficiency kills productivity and profitability, and this ripples through the economy, resulting in a lower standard of living for the many.
This happens a lot! My husband is still in college, and whenever there's a group project he always asks people to meet up at his parent's house so that if they don't show up (which happens often), at least he didn't go out of his way. When I was in college here, my classmates were usually good about showing up, although they usually arrived an hour or two late. Regarding what V said about them expecting others to arrive on time, once I had a group get together at my apartment for a project. Only one girl showed up so the two of us did a few hours of work then went out on some errand to do research for the project. When two other girls in our group showed up at my place (4 hours late) they were irate that we wouldn't go back to my apartment to work with them. God only knows...
