Please DON'T read this or watch this video if...

Discussion in 'Free For All' started by Zackman, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. Zibbyzap

    Zibbyzap Guest

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    The problem that I have with any bill being considered in Congress these days (health care as well as anything else) is the "pork" that gets attached to it. Why must they insist on attaching other legislation to it costing us billions or trillions more?

    It is a shame that we can't clone our founding fathers and start all over again.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    I never said companies shouldn't make profits, but let's not kid ourselves that everything they do is whiter than white.
     
  3. Jamie

    Jamie Mayor of Temptation Registered Member

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    No, but the current administration seems to think that profits are just greed manifested. Would you beleive that my company actually is developing briefings for the government as to why corporations need to make a profit?

    And the lack of lilly whiteness does only belong to large corporations, even mom and pop shops bend the rules now and again. :)

    Jamie
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    Oh we agree on that. Just that the OP seemed to be making an argument against one solution based on the fact that it is open to fraud, abuse and mismanagement.

    All I'm saying is it's exactly the same case with the alternative solution or any solution .... which doesn't really make it much of a persuasive argument in my book.
     
  5. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    I must admit that I really find it amazing that the strongest opinions for the Obamacare are coming from Canadians and Brits. Amazing how people who don't live here are so willing to have this administration jam the socialization of the health insurance industry down our throats. First off, a bit of a history lesson. Our health system worked out very well for years until the government got involved in it. That is when it became extremely lucrative for people to get very involved in the health industry. Prior to Medicare, health costs were very low in the US. After Medicare they started to skyrocket. Add to it the predatory legal profession that is so protected by their Democratic puppets and you have a very high cost environment that is not about to change by more government.

    The issue here is not about health care. It is about the take over of the health insurance industry. With the myriad of economic problems here is the US, don't you think it is extremely unusual that this Congress and this President are so fixated on the health issue? Doesn't it strike anyone that there are some very heavy undercurrents here? I have never known anyone who was denied health care, regardless of the economic situation or status or lack of health insurance.

    One of my clients had to take his wife to a Buffalo hospital with stroke like symptoms. He is has a very solid health insurance. He had to wait for seven hours to have his wife seen by a doctor. Why the long wait? Because the waiting room was full of Medicare patients with drug overdoses, stab wounds, drunken injuries and other problems. Does that seem like a system that more government will solve? If you really think so, then you've been watching way too many Michael Moore propaganda films.

    One of the mainstays of the health issue seems to be the ability of anyone with any possible pre-existing condition to get health insurance. Anyone who has ever had an accident has seen what can happen to your car insurance when you are determined to be a bad risk. The insurance company has to raise their rates to cover the bad drivers. Do you really think that allowing those with pre-existing conditions to suddenly jump into an insurance pool is going to lower insurance costs?

    Obama's whole administration is based on making people less accountable for their own actions. Hey you're dumb enough to still smoke, no problem, step right up here and get your free cancer treatments. Can't stop drinking? No problem we'll pay for you to get free health care. So you weigh in at 400 pounds because you can't push yourself away from the dinner table? No sweat there Chubo, we'll pay for your heart attacks, leg operations, and anything else you need.

    Why not make people more accountable, not less? I can tell you why. If you make enough people wards of the state, they will always vote for the state. Just another form of bribery, and a very successful one at that.
     
  6. coby

    coby Regular Registered Member

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    Simply not true. This gets thrown around all the time by the health-care proposal opponents (usually more generalized like: "we the people don't want this!") but there are a near equal, if not equal, amount of supporters. Of course the 'angry' side is the side that is the loudest and gets heard; thinking of it in those terms, I would imagine the 'angry' side prior to Obama is the reason he is the president now.

    As far as my personal acquaintances go, about 25% outright hate the health plan just because it is coming from a Democratic administration and legislation. Another 25% dislike the plan (would vote against it) not because of it's principles, but because of it's execution. The third 25% support the bill, but dislike the execution or certain stipulation, but think it is better than what we currently have (I am in this camp), and the final 25% love every aspect of the bill because they are Obama nuts.

    IMHO, that first 25% and the last 25% are equally useless as far as ADVANCING our great nation goes. Rhetoric, baseless ignorance in many cases, and sensationalism (or unjustified praise) are all those camps use to further their own means. In other words: bullshit propaganda, the kind that tarnishes our political processes and makes some of our political systems an absolute joke in the face of other modern systems.

    I suppose you would say I'm a 'raging liberal' for being in that third group above, but I'm actually very much a libertarian; small business owner (very small, only 5 employees) who is tired of corporatism overriding the true capitalism our country was based on: small business capitalism and individual ingenuity.

    Edit: I should add that living in Mexico for almost a year, has really made me appreciate the existence of the welfare system in the US. Broken? Absolutely. Better than nothing? More than absolutely. A year ago my answer would have been: broken to the point of not worth existing.
     
  7. Brewster

    Brewster I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    :)

    We get your news channels here. There is a lot of misinformation out there and Canada is often sited in your news and by your politicians as a "Health Care failure". The poll aren't reflecting the opinions of an informed public. They are reflecting the opinions of a media manipulated public.

    Yeah, guess maybe we're sticking our nose in where it doesn't belong. I'm just throwing my two cents in as a friend to a friend.

    I'll go back to dreaming about tequila, cerveza's, warm sun and partying :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  8. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    Not at all. I have no Desire to live in the US now, nor can I see that ever changing. Let's not go down the route of intimating that "everyone is jealous of us" or I might have to bring up the A for arrogant word again. Part of it maybe because you guys who support this proposal keep on using the UK and Canada as an example of how it can fail, when it actually isn't the case. The health stats provided above are testament to that. We are just as proud of our country as you are of yours.

    It seems there isn't a week goes by without the same issue being rehashed and supported by what can only be summised as weak arguments. So, if anyone is jamming it down our throats here on cancuncare it aint the Canadians or Brits.

    There's an election in the UK coming up in May or June, if anyone wants to start some poilitical threads about that then go ahead and I'll join in those too. I doubt anyone will though, because those interested in it dont feel it necessary to ram it down other peoples throats on a forum that has next to nothing to do with politics.

    :)
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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  10. Brewster

    Brewster I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    :)

    Let's talk about tits and beer in Mexico
     
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