Passing A Healthcare Bill At All Costs

Discussion in 'Free For All' started by Michael F., Mar 16, 2010.

  1. Life_N_Cancun

    Life_N_Cancun Guest

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    Well, I'm hardly "ga-ga" over it.. but I think you might be surprised what some of us US-expats pay in taxes.. and I'm not %100, but I think even non-residents citizens will be required to hold a certain level of insurance under the law.

    As for "fixing" things.. I purpose that some of the ~$100 billion a year go towards training some of the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of non-violent/less-violent people that the US has imprisoned, in the fields of medicine, so not only will they have a useful skill to keep them out of trouble but they will be a real benefit to society... (in theory anyway) of' course that will never happen since prisons are big business and America gave up on the idea of rehabilitation eons ago...

    Sigh... if only I could control the world... :D
     
  2. btodde

    btodde Addict Registered Member

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    Currently in the US there is not 1 hospital or medical establishment that will turn away medical care to anyone in need. The bill was passed by Ronald Reagan. We have programs for low income families to receive medical care. Some just refuse or to lazy to fill out the paper work and show they are truly in need. Rather they want be able to get healthcare with no commitment or work.

    I know, I have family members that I am not proud of who has milked the Gov't for everything they can. Free college for all her children, free daycare, free food (Food Stamps), and yes, even free healthcare. And she and or children have never kept a steady job. EVER!!!! They just keep having kids and have their hand out for more. Tell me that is right? You may say that is the minority of the people in need. But it is not, it is the majority.

    I said all hospitals, but I was wrong.. There is 1 in Chicago, Illinois. The name escapes me right now, but this is the only hospital that will turn away unable to pay patience. That is the hospital Michelle Obama ran and championed to pass this guideline. Look it up.

    I am not saying our healthcare system doesn't have flaws because it does. We can set forth regulations on the health industry that will prevent raising of costs, premiums, and turning people away, but we can do all this without putting America in the hole.
     
  3. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Quoting me:
    At least since 2003, I've been following what was then a looming financial crisis in the U.S. It seemed to me that everything that could be borrowed was being borrowed, at all levels, by both the government and the people of the U.S.

    I noticed that the money which had been designated to cover future claims against social security was being used, instead, to fund the general budget, because the American people were unwilling to pay the cost of government, or accept the dramatic cuts in government programs that would be required to put the house in order, if those cuts might impact any program of government spending they personally favored, or benefited from.

    Two wars came, yet no one talked of making financial sacrifices, nor even of buying U.S. Government Bonds to pay for them; instead, the country turned to China for the money needed, and one trillion dollars was borrowed during that period.

    Alarmingly, and at a time when there was no money in the federal budget to pay for it, a costly medicare drug benefit package was added, with no one asking, "Has anyone noticed, there is no money?"

    Our citizens borrowed at a frenetic pace to buy into the housing market, without giving too much thought to whether those houses could possibly be worth as much as they were agreeing to pay, merely because credit was available.

    Then, starting in 2007, and taking full hold by 2008, the collapse came. By fall 2008, the country was in full financial crisis and the political leadership decided that the financial system must be rescued at all costs. Huge, additional future commitments were undertaken by the U.S. Government and financial giants, such as AIG (whose business was, among other things, selling insurance to protect against losses on bad financial investments), were rescued. There being no more money to borrow, the Federal Government simply began printing what was needed to cover expenses, no longer even making a pretense of covering it. Treasury simply made an internal notation that the general budget owed this money to the Treasury.

    Then, under a new administration- and again without anyone facing the real underlying problem, that the country was, in effect, broke- a revision of the way health care was to be provided was undertaken without the full potential budgetary impact being understood, but knowing that there would be one.

    Nothing surprises me in America, though I can say it does disappoint me that Americans spend so much time debating political philosophy and so little time actually looking problems squarely in the eye to solve them, painful as that is, and will be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  4. btodde

    btodde Addict Registered Member

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    V

    you can play the blame game all you want because that is what most Liberals do. Yes Bush raised our deficit and yes we fought 2 wars, and yes he bailed out Wall street when we should have not.

    However, during his adminstration 7 out of the 8 years Americans paid some of the lowest taxes, had some of the lowest unemployement, and caught and destroyed many terrorist organizations ready to attack America again.

    I am not the biggest Bush fan and his bail out of Wall Street was terrible and didn't work, so why are we again bailing out more and more huge companies? Why are we again spending money to create more gov't ran bills? Why are we just printing money with nothing to back it up?

    Why did Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get a huge pay out? Because they are Gov't ran. Why did the CEOs of these companies receive 6 million dollar bonuses and nothing was said? because they are Gov't owned.

    ON Dec 31 2010, the Bush tax cuts will end and starting Jan 1 2011 All Americans who pay income taxes (which is only 50%) will have less money to take home to their families.

    Yes only 50% of Americans pay income tax, and the current debt is at what?? ~ 14 trillion dollars. Highest ever in American history. They way we are going right now, we will never be able to pay it back.

    McCain had the idea... Cut all spending ASAP. Look at every Gov't ran entity and start slicing across the board. We know what we should do, but we don't do it. It is just like budgeting in your own home. You don't spend more than you make or you will go broke.
     
  5. Life_N_Cancun

    Life_N_Cancun Guest

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    Well said V.. perhaps a little more general than just the healthcare topic.. but well said.. everyone expects the government to run the country but no one thinks they should have to pay for it.

    As I've said, IMHO the biggest issue here isn't the health bill its political bull$hit posturing to get votes come election time. I HATE politics..! I HATE Republican BS! I HATE Democrat BS! I HATE that every single elected official is more concerned about getting re-elected than they are about running the F%@%ing country.... :ranting1::ranting1::ranting1::ranting1::ranting1::ranting1:
    & for what it's worth I agree that what needs to be done is massive cuts, but those sorts of decisions are political suicide which is why it's so hard to do. (ie: Senator "X" cut your education, your police, your healthcare.. the military.. etc...)
     
  6. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Thanks, Life.

    btodde wrote:
    Advocating a serious look at excessive government spending and the contribution that makes to the crisis in America, is an American issue, not a liberal/conservative issue. Nothing is more conservative than wanting to pay your bills as you go. One need not be anything but "accountable" to want to deal with the problems. Our political leadership can be no stronger, nor better than we are.

    It's time Americans stop political bickering, and accept the pain that is to come, if the country's financial problems are to be solved. Americans are suffering now, but the full pain to come, and which must be dealt with, is being deferred through various devices, at present.

    As you suggested-
    -this is what is needed, and all will suffer.

    Colorado Springs, where my mother lives, has begun this process. All street lights in the city have been turned off, except those at intersections: neighborhoods are now dark, except where the residents have agreed to take over paying for the electricity. Services to the city parks have been curtailed: they no longer have garbage pick up, and are no longer being mowed, as before. The city's three police helicopters have been put on the auction block. The senior citizen centers have been ordered closed.

    The school boards are similarly affected, and are now considering reducing classes to just four days per week, offering no summer courses, laying off teachers and increasing the class sizes, to mention a few of the measures that will be necessary, in the short run, with more to come.

    This is the sort of pain I'm talking about, a frankly less wealthy U.S.A. than we've been accustomed to.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  7. btodde

    btodde Addict Registered Member

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    V, Life N Cancun,

    That is basically what I am saying. Let's examine what neeeds to be done to correct our economy. Doesn't matter what politcal side you're on. Let's fix this.

    That is why I am so angry we keep spending such crazy amount of money to the point we can not dig our way out of it. Because this Admin wants to spend and spend. " We have to spend money to get out of debt." Quote from Joe Biden and nancy Palosi. How the hell does that make any sense? Healthcare, Cap and Trade, Education, etc... Put all this on hold for now and fix the country before spending on idiotic bills that is full of nothing but friviouless spending.

    We need to cut unneccessary spending and get Americans working again. Get our housing problem back on track. Get revenue back into our hands. The more Americans work the more taxes the gov't will get.

    We have to make drastic decisions to cut cost. Sometimes unpopular decisions are the best for the country. Just like at home, if you don't have the money to keep your lights on, guess what, the electric company will shut you off. You have to have revenue to pay the bills. States are going bankrupt and they are making these decsision because it is the only resort we have left. And to pass a healthcare bill right now that will cost states a huge amount of money is plain stupid.
     
  8. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Cuts to Medicare

    OK, btodde!

    Since this thread is about health care, and how to finance it, let's start there. Medicare is over budget, and getting more costly, every year. It is, without a doubt, the cadillac of insurance for the elderly. It has very low premiums, low deductibles and co-payments, will cover you for life, and has no exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

    Can we agree that a medical system paid for by the entire country can be reasonably limited in the benefits it's going to offer?

    So far as I know there are just a few groups that get reimbursements from Medicare- doctors and some other health care professionals, health equipment providers, and hospitals.

    To reduce government expenditures, it will be necessary to cut the cost of the program, either by reducing the reimbursements, or reducing the services which will be covered. (Don't anybody start suggesting raising deductibles, co-pays or premiums; that's just a dodge, and a temporary fix: we're talking about cutting costs, and government expenditures, here.)

    Can anybody think of some services that are very expensive- so there will be some impact on the total cost of reimbursements- that you'd think you'd like to see cut? (Since we're talking about a government program here and we're all going to have to pay for it, surely there are some services we can agree could be cut in order to save the benefits for the many others who need the remaining services.)

    What about transplants of major organs, for starters? These procedures are costly, benefit only a few, and often require long term and very expensive care both before and after the surgery. No transplant of a failed major organ would be covered; nor would any form of treatment which does no more than act as a substitute for the failed organ.

    We could also start cutting quite a lot from the cost of the Medicare program by adopting twinimini's suggestion that the government put all drug purchases out for bid, annually, taking advantage of the bargaining power large purchasers naturally have.

    In the same vein, only generic drugs would be covered, unless medical research had demonstrated that a patented drug was, in fact, more effective (something not currently required to be determined, in the drug approval process of the FDA).
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  9. Canadian Dos Equis fan

    Canadian Dos Equis fan Cancuncare's Most Interesting Man Registered Member

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    this thread makes me think of this cartoon.

    [​IMG]

    Enjoy all!
     
  10. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Hey, Canadian, I for one have appreciated your contributions, but this thread has always been about an issue arising in the U.S., and how to deal with it. Whether it matters, or not, and worth their time, or not, is for those who post to decide.
     
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