Immigration strikes me as one of those subjects so complicated that you almost have to go back to first principles, to make any sense out of it. To maintain order, and respect for the laws, immigration laws have to be vigorously enforced: that includes pushing those who've entered the country, illegally, or overstayed their permission, back out of the country, no matter where they're from or the color of their skin. It also includes penalizing those who knowingly employ those who are either 1) in the country illegally; or, 2)if they are in the country legally, do not have permission to work. If you've going to vigorously enforce the laws, you have to make sure those laws make sense, including reasonable provision for the admission of temporary labor, when needed, for the sake of the economic development of the country (yes, there are potential jobs American citizens don't want to do, for the money that's offered to do them). Finally, there is a correlation between the economic and social development of the country, and the treatment of illegals, once they are on the territory of that country. The more developed the country, the better illegal immigrants are treated during their illegal stay. The U.S., being a highly developed country, treats illegals better, generally speaking, as a result, and this causes social tension. Only sensible laws, vigorously enforced, can balance these competing interests. It's not an easy thing to do, and the U.S. is seriously behind the curve on both counts.
Jenleib...while I totally believe that many may have posted a different, more lighthearted response to this same letter, I myself would have posted a very similar response that I did here this week. I found this letter offensive the first time I read it, and each subsequent time. So my position has not changed, though it's a shame if what you state truly happened and may indeed speak to the changing mood of the board. I don't remember the first time johndish posted nor the comments after, but it IS really interesting that you pointed out the same posters had a much more negative reaction this time around! I also agree that anger, grudges, and hatred are negative and destructive emotions....and that letter is chock full of those emotions, which is why I so wholeheartedly reject it!
Never would I have posted this piece of racism Jenlieb, You are right in that I posted some wacky stuff but, it was a combination of all the questions people asked on this site about moving here that people had lost all humor about answering. I view this letter as racist and closed minded. Hopefully I have become neither as I get older and grumpier. John
I am not nor have been a prolific poster here at this Site especially about anything political since the November 2008 USA election time when I posted my thoughts and then out of what I considered self preservation to continue posting here deleted my posts since I most certainly identified myself as anti-Obama... and a true freedom loving capitalist... With that said and thus identifying my disgust at what is happening in the USA because of this faux person, I feel that it's time for me to come forward and express what I think is being conveyed by the message in the OP, if not what was the intent of the OP who posted the message yet has not returned to comment but my interpretation of the message itself. The 'letter' is in fact a widely distributed e-mail within the USA that supposedly and IMO not only identifies but highlights the extreme differences in what someone, just about anyone from anywhere but primarily those from Mexico, who enter the USA illegally GET FOR FREE at the expense of the LEGAL TAX PAYING PEOPLE!!! Now, those of us who have chosen to live in Mexico, .... legally or NOT, but especially those of us who are LEGAL ..... DO YOU/WE get any of the items listed in the OP for NADA, at the expense of the Mexican citizens? HELL NO! So, maybe what BO should be entertaining Calderon with is a 1:1 exchange for those of us who choose to live in Mexico with those who are in the US illegally BUT with EQUAL BENEFITS for one and all.... Think about it.
Just talkin' politics.... First of all, I'd like to say that I've appreciated your posts very much, Mole. There've been many times when your research on an issue has outstripped mine, and I was happy to see it. As for a 1:1 exchange, if the U.S. continues to decline economically, a 1:1 exchange may make more sense in the future than it does at present! By the way, do you still like beer, and are you in town, now? (I remember what you said when I was fishing around for some wine recommendations.) There's plenty to be said on these, and related subjects!
I was provided with a great education by two hard working Americans, my nurse Mum and WWII Vet Dad so thank you for the comment re my research stuff. Ah, the decline of the American economy..... If Obama can get away with it, then we will have made the best decision by buying a home in Mexico and having done everything correctly as the way things in the USA are going, the Cancun Casa may be the only thing that we have to leave to our kids. I've been back in NH since May 11Th for rechecks with Docs here where my CA surgery was done last year. Let's see, when in Cancun my preference is XX but when I do have wine I do still prefer Concha y Toro or Tora, Cabernet sauvignon. Here in the States, Miller Lite for me....
As an old goat I guess, I still have a sense of humor and find the original post funny and far from offensive if you have any sense of humor. With that said, I agree with CancunMole on this. We in the US have a President who has done nothing for this country but bring it to the brink of disaster. As for immigration I truly have no issue with those who sneak into the US to support their families from Mexico. These are very hard working individuals who do the work that we Americans are now too proud to do and in the light of 10% unemployment still find the jobs that the illegal immigrants take on as still too demeaning for us to handle. Perhaps if Americans would take these jobs and work at them as hard as Mexicans then there would be no work here for Mexicans and for that matter other foreigners since Americans would be doing the jobs that they feel too privilidged to take on. However with that said, I do have a problem with our government giving out the benefits that illegal immigrants get no matter where they are from, while Americans born in the USA to American Citizen families cannot get work of other privilidges. This is a major disgrace in our country that those who sneak over the borders can get privilidges while those who were born here cannot. CancunMole is right Obama, has done nothing but bring this country closer each day to socialism and further away from capitalism.
disagree Our President created a mess and is having a hell of a time trying to fix this mess all at once. Not going to happen over night. Those crossing the borders getting priviledges while those who were born there cannot has been happening for years and now we all want to blame Obama and expect him to clean it up. And another thing that irritates me-every Mexican and any nationality being paid cash is because some owner in the states has figured out to get rich on good cheap labor and he is not paying any taxes. Or the people bitching about those working there illegally and yet will turn around and hire a illegal company to maintain their lawn, paint their house and lay their carpet because they are cheap. But I will say this, President Obama is not going to get anything done and he will be out in 4 years and then we can have another Bush that runs our country into the ground
oops of course I meant this mess was dropped in his lap-he sure didnt create this mess. Been there way to long-got out of hand and now how can it be fixed. Not sure if can be. But what needs to happen-all politicans need to get together and do something about fraud, deadbeats, pork spending and lobbyists. If this dont stop-no president will ever make things good ever again. Now I think I am had better go to church
Everyone must keep one thing in mind. The illegal immigration issue was started by Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter and I can keep going. This is a problem that has been ongoing for ages and not one president was able to stop it or is probably really willing to stop it. So I cannot blame the current administration or its predecesors for this problem. Till we in the US wake up and realize that we as Americans are capable o taking care of our own lawns our own painting and refuse to pay cash for people who will do the job for below legal wages this problem will not be solved. While Payagrandma goes to church, I need to end the discussio before Steve does.
