Kidnapped?

Discussion in 'Living in Cancun' started by 4NSPY, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2003
    Messages:
    17,419
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    Location:
    Cancun
    Ratings:
    +7,194 / 14
    Dramatic much?
    Yeah you're right the chances of getting knifed, shot or seriously injured in a bar fight is zero as so perfectly not illustrated here. Everyone shakes hands after round 2 and walks away.
     
  2. Life_N_Cancun

    Life_N_Cancun Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Wow! Some of you here really seem to have taken up personal stakes in this matter....

    I think Steve's got it right... it was a drunken fight... one that happened to end badly for all parties involved with the main aggressor suffering serious injury and Free getting the business end of Mexico's less than straight forward legal system.
     
  3. KTDLP

    KTDLP Enthusiast Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun, Q. Roo
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    My only personal involvement in this is my involvement with the legal system here in Cancun. I do not know Ferrat or Free personally but I do know and live the criminal legal system here in Cancun daily.

    I have not gone to visit a complete stranger in prison based on his sad circumstances of being held for a crime that he did commit or gone to sit by Ferrat's hospital bed either. This case does not tug at my heartstrings more than others just because one of the involved is a foreigner, especially because he was living here on an FM2. He was not a tourist that lost his way.

    I can however look at the facts objectively and know that Free is a criminal. The facts in this case go a lot farther than any of the news outlets report or that Free's family will admit. The video that you all see was not the beginning of the fight, it was the end.

    Regardless of your grey opinions of morality, the law here (and in most places) is black and white. If you permanently damage someone after 1,2,3,or 10 pushes you are guilty of using excessive force. Free was tried and convicted. He is a criminal. Whether you like the system here or not, you should not make him out to be a martyr.

    The judicial system here, just like in ALL countries, has flaws that many good people are trying to work out and change. For you to use a man that cracked another man's skull and left him in a comma and partially brain damaged as a martyr for the system here, you take away from all of the hard work that these people are doing. There are real victims of judicial systems around the world that deserve attention, and Free is not one of them.
     
  4. rawkus

    rawkus I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun, Q Roo.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    ...and Free has and is still paying for his part.

    Im just waiting for Ivan to do so as well.

    Fair is fair, right?

    So, if the fight started earlier, before the video must of us have seen, it just seems even more stupid to keep going, right?

    This part I think we can all pin on alcohol doing its part...

    Regardless: Ivan pushes Free three times over, and then gets his behind kicked.

    Im not taking sides, I condemn excessive use of force, but I certainly do NOT see Ivan as a victim - he initiated it, or "he continued it" as seen on the vid, if the claims that it started earlier are true.

    Had Ivan been assaulted "out of the blue", then I would have sympathy for him, but not now.

    Harsh? Meh, more like "dont start stuff you cant finish".

    Free is done with his part - Ivan needs to start paying for HIS part.

    Once that has been done, this even can be put behind and they can both start moving on.

    Im quite sure this wont ever be straightened out completely, as its been waaaay too long and so much crap has happened(lost witness reports, witness withdrawals etc.)

    Anyone who engages in a bar/street brawl MUST understand the lack of rules etc. If one dont, then stay the hell away. Simple and any normal person would understand this.

    People looking for logic, fairness etc in these types of brawls should look elsewhere...
     
  5. KTDLP

    KTDLP Enthusiast Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun, Q. Roo
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    You are a victim of the crime committed against you. In Ferrat's case, he is a victim of excessive use of force. So, in the eyes of the legal system here he IS a victim.

    The evidence for this crime is not who started the fight, what happened earlier in the night, or even the mental state of the people at the time. The evidence was 100% based on the VICTIM of the crime's injuries. This was identified before any witness testimony, credit card statements, or video was even involved.

    For example, if the victim does not have any defensive wounds they can determine that he was unconscious when the damage to his skull occurred. This is evidence enough that a crime was committed. The other evidence was only admitted to determine who the suspect was and to find him. It was not to determine who started the fight, ever!!

    Now, as for what will happen next and what consequences Ferrat will have to pay. The way the system works is that Free will need to file a complaint against BOTH of the aggressors for starting the fight. He will also need to file complaints for corruption against specific people, if that is what he feels happened. You will probably also see politicians from opposing parties getting involved for their own political interest and gain.
     
  6. rawkus

    rawkus I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun, Q Roo.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I completely understand that, but it STILL doesnt mean that Ivan is a innocent victim.

    He brought it onto himself, be it excessive violence or not.

    Had he NOT done what he did, I doubt he would have ever got his behind whooped, and thus, would hot have been scared for life.

    I sure do hope Free will file a complaint and that the prosecutors will review the tape over and over again.

    If the argument started earlier(like you said), then it just seems even more stupid to go back/continue the entire thing...

    He bit of WAY too much than he could chew, and is now paying for it health wise... Free is paying for it in cash, time and jail. Ivan needs to be held responsible as the aggressor/initiator etc. based on the tape.

    Only then can it all be called fair in my eyes.

    Ps. Politicians using events like these for their own gain...? You dont say, hehe ;)
     
  7. KTDLP

    KTDLP Enthusiast Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun, Q. Roo
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I hope that he does file a complaint so that ALL of the evidence and story of that night can come out and get proper media attention as well. But knowing what Free knows, I can almost guarantee you that complaint will never get filed. The only reason I say almost is because the influence of certain lawyers and politicians that want to use this publicity as a platform may assure him that he will get certain results.

    The justice that you are looking for is unrealistic, as the nature of the crime itself is punishment. It is excessive punishment for what was done to oneself. That is why this type of charge is used so often against law enforcement. If the law sentenced Ferrat to any jail time or fines, they would be saying that he deserves more punishment for his actions than he has already received from Free himself. Therefor, they would be contradicting themselves.

    Just because this does not sound just to you does not make it so. There are no absolute truths when it comes to morality. It is very ambiguous. That is why all that we can do is follow what is written, no matter how general or unfair that may seem to the minority.

    In this case the only clear corruption and abuse of power is from the family of the accused. Admitting to paying protection money is admitting to a crime. I think the best thing for them to do is cut their losses and go home.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2003
    Messages:
    17,419
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    Location:
    Cancun
    Ratings:
    +7,194 / 14
    Yeah, let's forget about the fact Free's mom was kidknapped (the event that started this thread).

    Far from seing Free as a martyr, I think a few of us could see ourselves unfortunately ending up in this very same situation oh so easily, and that's perhaps why we empathise with him.

    It could so easily have been us, us 'no names' might well be out having a few drinks when a Z list celeb with a powerful Daddy decides to pick a fight, comes off worse and, hey ho, over a year in prison.
     
  9. KTDLP

    KTDLP Enthusiast Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun, Q. Roo
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I completely understand that other foreigners identify with him. That is where all of this comes from. The only point I am trying to make in this, is that Free is not Natalee Holloway. He is a convicted criminal. He did not just incapacitate someone that attacked him in a bar. He cracked his skull after he was already unconscious. That is FACT and that is illegal.

    As for the kidnapping, more fact is who was caught for those crimes. They were people from inside the prison that had absolutely no connection to the Ferrat family. The fact of the matter is if you come here screaming victim and flashing the amount of bribe money you are paying at a prison full of criminals, you are bound to suffer consequences.

    I have seen on this board that CC regulars do not agree with paying bribe money to traffic police, so I do not understand why under these circumstances it should be okay. Regardless of the conditions of the jail here, no one is above the law. There are good people here trying to change the system and kill corruption. When you go around bragging that you are contributing to that corruption, you are insulting those people.

    There has never been any evidence to connect the Ferrat family to any corruption, only empty accusations. In my experience and opinion, the only thing the Ferrat family is guilty of is getting the justice system to function the way that it should always function, quickly. That doesn't come from influence, that comes from knowledge of the way the system here works and working with it not against it.

    Verde would never have given Alaen a seat on City Council if they felt he was guilty of any corruption or wrong doing.
     
  10. rawkus

    rawkus I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun, Q Roo.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    ...and yet, not matter how many times one twists and turns it, Ivan would never have been injured "for life" if he hadnt initiated the brawl/gone back for a second serving...

    When it comes to him paying for it by getting himself into this situation and then getting injured? Nope, that dosent fly.

    No one forced him into it, no one told him to do it - it was HIS choice and he happened to pick on the completely wrong person, be it a "psycho" or not.

    If you have NEVER been in or witnessed a street brawl of this type, then its hard to explain, but, its fairly simple: DONT start anything you cant finish.

    Free is paying and ha paid - Ivan is simply paying to himself for HIS own mistake - now its time that he starts paying for the mess HE helped start in the first place.

    Maybe Im asking for too much, seeing as we are in Mexico, but my wish is that both parts are taking responsibilities for their own actions. Free is doing so - Ivan NEEDS to do so...

    Interesting example: A Jewelry store owner back home got sentenced for shooting a burglar, but the thief also got sentenced for intent, violent behavior and threatening...

    What makes this any different? Ivan should be let of the hook simply because he lost the fight?

    And no, getting oneself injured from something oneself started is NOT enough to be let off this easily.

    Once he is healthy enough, he should be prosecuted. If he has nothing to hide and if his family really believes in the Mexican legal system, then it should all be a smooth ride, right? ;)

    Cant wait to hear the explanations on why he pushed Free 3 times over as seen on the tape...

    Unfortunate for Ivan that he got injured - unfortunate for Free that he used excessive force.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice