immigration

Discussion in 'Living in Cancun' started by bt, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Davisod, you said earlier that this was the question, referring to the first quoted passage above, but that question calls for an evaluation of the relative merits of applying at one of four different points in time, and Mauricio´s answer doesn´t seem to be responsive to that question.

    If your question to him was a somewhat different one, would you care to share it with us, so we can make sense of his reply?
     
  2. rawkus

    rawkus I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    I was told similar at the INM office: "We are not 100% sure yet..."

    Hence my curiosity regarding how they will handle the changes, hehe :)
     
  3. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    When people have had discouraging experiences with INM it's easy to fall into a trap which leads one to believe the process is lot more complicated, or mysterious, than it is, in fact.

    Earlier I commented that it appears that Steve is eligible for permanent residency under the new laws, on at least two different grounds: now, I'd like to say what those may be.

    The situations in which one may request permanent residency are partly spelled out in Article 139: they include marriage to a Mexican citizen, and four years spent in a regular immigration status (FM3/2; NoInmigrante/Inmigrante). Steve would qualify on either of these grounds, based on his earlier post.

    Article 141 then spells out who may change their immigration status, in country: they include both these situations.

    So, we can see that on the plain reading of the new laws, Steve could apply for permanent residency, never have to renew again, pursue any lawful activity in the country and need never ask for permission, again, to do so.

    The new rules are generous in their provisions, and many people will be extremely satisfied with the changes made.

    Rawkus pointed out earlier that INM personnel told him the new rules would go into practical effect on November 12, and the new rules say they will take effect 30 working days from the date they were published, 28/9/2012, which would be November 12!

    As always, I invite others to read the new rules and see if they find agreement, or disagreement, in anything I post on the subject of immigration. One of the good things about a forum is the chance to have mistaken impressions corrected.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
  4. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    Sounds good in theory, lets see how it works out in practice. Another month or so and we'll be starting the process.
     
  5. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Something worth keeping in mind, Steve, is that the new rules say that anyone who applies for a tramite, prior to the effective date of the new rules (November 12), will have their case determined under the old rules.
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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  7. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Will you need a visa?

    [While some things are rather clear cut under the new law and regulations, there are a few issues that I find unclear, at this point. Here's an important one. It involves the issue of whether a person who is otherwise eligible to enter the country, visa free, must obtain a visa before entering Mexico, if they are entering for the purpose of establishing residency. Under current practice, no visa is required.]

    The new INM law and regulations seem to suggest it would be possible for those entering "visa free" (entry permit only, good for up to 180 days, given as you enter) to declare their intention to seek residency (see Article 59, 60 of the regulations), as the passport control agent is supposed to question you about the purposes of your visit, but there is no place on the FMMs that I've seen for a INM officer to note anything other than a "Visitante" category, and this category is not permitted to change status in country, except as provided by Article 53 of the law published in 2011, which appears, on its face, to severely restrict that option.

    The prior law permitted a status change, even if you entered visa free, and this is in fact the way most people became residents of Mexico. It seems unlikely INM intended to change this, so we may find there are no changes in this practice, even though Art 53 seems to imply a change.

    It's always better to interpret laws in a way that leads to a practical result, and reconciles any apparently conflicting provisions, unless it's clear the authors had something else in mind: as I read the law and regulations, there is room for maintaining the present practice of allowing people to enter, visa free, then apply for residence status, in country- provided they declare their intention to seek residency status at the time they enter the country. Adding a few more blanks to the FMM, so that the INM officers could note that intention, might be all it takes to reconcile the various provisions- Art 53 of the law, and Art 141 of the regulations.

    This language, taken from Art 59 of the regulations, seems to me to lend support to this interpretation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  8. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    I guess just a few observations are in order, the first being that the new rules come into effect November 12, the second being that all tramites submitted prior to that date will be processed under the rules now applicable.

    Being the type I am, I would want to wring as much uncertainty out of the situation as possible. Here's how I would imagine doing it.

    I would feel the most confident if I could arrive and get my tramite underway on or before November 9 (the last business day before the new rules come into effect), just for the greater clarity that would be present in the process, everyone being familiar with how it goes.

    I don't know if you've ever arrived, written job offer in hand, as you are this time. If you have, I wouldn't expect things to go differently, provided you get everything submitted on or before November 9.
    This is where the forum comes in handy: there will be a reader who has arrived, job offer in hand, who can tell us how it went for them, under the old rules (assuming they indicated the purpose of their visit to be "trabajo", rather than "turismo").
    _______________________

    Under the new rules, if you arrive without a visa, you will face the uncertainties I spoke of in my previous post; so, for now, this is best avoided, if possible, and you are lucky to be coming now, rather than later, Scorpio.

    Any tourists reading this should understand we are talking about those who come with the intention of living/working in Cancun, not those who arrive on holiday, or come for business purposes, for whom the procedures are essentially unchanged under the new rules.

    [As always, if a reader spots something they think is an obvious error, based on their reading of the law or other grounds, please point it out.]
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  9. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    One of the more interesting and useful changes that appears in the new immigration laws and rules is the ability for many to go straight into permanent residency. Since a lot of expats are retirees, with a steady stream of income or significant wealth, and can qualify for this status, this will be of interest to them.

    Four years in temporary residency is another way to qualify for permanent residency, and many will be able to take advantage of that provision, if they choose to.

    Although Mexico has a tax law exempting returns from investments abroad from being taxed, if you're a foreigner, I'd check with a Mexican tax expert before taking permanent residency if you have significant investment income. Permanent residency status eliminates all hope of claiming that you are not subject to Mexican tax laws: this won't matter, if that income is exempt under Mexican Law, but you need to check before taking the plunge.

    Not having to renew will appeal to many, as it eliminates all the costly and time consuming trips to INM that we have to live with under the current law.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  10. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    For those who do arrive after the window on the old law closes, and are planning to arrive without a visa giving you permission to establish either temporary or permanent residency- and test whether my musings, in the post three before this one, might be correct- be prepared to declare, in no uncertain terms, complete with supporting documents, your intention to seek residency; because, if the law and rules are applied, as written, once the INM official notates that you are arriving in one of the several "Visitante" categories, it appears you will not be able to change status, in country, unless you meet the very narrow exceptions contained in Art 53 of the new law, published in 2011, as elaborated in Art 141 of the new regulations. There is a blank, in the FMM forms, labelled, "other", for purposes of your visit: you could indicate, "residency", to start the test. If they respond, as I think they might, you would be given 30 days in which to apply for one of those status', or leave the country (Art 59, new regulations).

    I'm not advocating that anyone try this, because in a very short period of time, perhaps another four to six weeks, all doubts will have likely be resolved about how this will go, making it better to wait if you can to enter the country with residency in mind, unless you fit under the exceptions permitting change of status contained in Art 53 of the new law, in which case it won't matter.

    [As always, if a reader spots something they think is an obvious error, based on their reading of the law or other grounds, please point it out.]
     
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