I think for many Americans- me included- what goes on "up there" remains a black hole for information even though it's our nearest and best neighbor We hear a lot more about Mexico- a country that in reality is less important as a trading partner than is Canada In my experience Canadians are the easiest of all people for Americans to relate to- and the country perhaps just a little kinder and gentler place in general- making it a potentially appealing place for Americans to live (if you could possibly ignore the weather!) _____________________ A question for you Canadians What things would Americans have to get used to (aside from the weather!) and what would we find different if we chose to live there- and could qualify to become landed immigrants?
hmmm that's a really good question. Because the grass is always greener on the other side. So from an insider's point of view here's what I think. 1. Liberal politics. Even the conservatives are more liberal than I think the American's are used to. The left and right are actually sitting pretty close to the middle. 2. The anti-American attitude. It's not that Canadian's hate Americans. Individually we'll all admit that the people are nice. But there's a weird acceptance that it's ok to bash the US for everything from crime to pollution. 3. A major Lack of Patriotism. It's quite common for Canada to be a country of convenience. People would rather wave their flag of origin than the Canadian flag. 4. The complainers. We complain about everything... but where we differ from most I think is that's where it stops. We never do anything about it. Bad service.. we'll still tip and complain about it later. The government wants to raise taxes.... grumble grumble grumble... OK. 4.1. Get ready to be taxed to death. Keep in mind that some of these may be different province to province. Depending on where you go you have to deal with different crap. Even the weather. Rain all winter in Vancouver. 2 meters of snow in Eastern Canada. It's all in where you move to.
Wow, living here next door to you, I hear a lot from my Canadian friends and I have never heard it put better than you did. Some things that happen in Canada are good lessons for us of what to do (leave the banks as regulated entities) and some are good examples of what not to do (two languages as official languages). Canadians like to wave the flag.....sometimes. It all seems to depend on what suits them at the time.
Canada is a fabulous country, though all of what Ian says is very true. I think the anti-Americanism is driven from a defensive, get your back up thing. Being so culturally close and physically close to the US we hear all about the US. The people you meet from the US are fabulous people, individually they are great, collectively they can weigh on you, and that is not a slag of our good friends, it is just that defensive mechanism kicking in. We do pay a lot in taxes, and I won't bother with a health care debate, but a lot goes to our health care, which I personally am very happy with. A lot also goes to our infrastructure. We are the second largest country in the world by land mass, yet we only have an average population of 2-3 people per square kilometre as compared to I believe 11-12 in the US, yet we have a modern up to date infrastructure with a road system that can compete anywhere in the world. Toronto is the 4th or 5th largest City in the US/Canada, (I was going to say North America but Mexico is part of NA). The GTA as it is called contains about 8 million people. I think if you included the entire population within 90 minutes of Toronto City Hall, which would encompass down to Niagara Falls in the South, Kitchener/Waterloo (possibly London) in the West, beyond Oshawa in the East and beyond Barrie to the North, the population would probably approach 10 million people. Montreal/Vancouver/Calgary/Edmonton and Ottawa in total probably have another 8 million people leaving 15 million people for the rest of the country, this puts some added stress on the infrastructure and subsequent taxation. The weather where I live isn't bad, I am in the Niagara Penninsula, surrounded by Lake Erie on one side and Lake Ontario on the other side, within 15 minutes of both Lakes. The lakes locally have a lot of effects on the weather, and the weather does have some extremes, with the humidity this week, we have been over 40 degrees Celcius for 3 consecutive days, in the winter with the wind chill we can be below 20 degrees Celcius, a 60 degree+ temperature swing. For the most part though the temperature is reasonable. This is my take on Canada, I love it, I think it's a great place to raise kids, the standard of living is high, the crime rate is low, the health care is excellent, the cost of living is high, but the opportunties for success are available, oh and the government is as screwed up as anyway else in the world.
To add to what Bob said, I think some of the anti-American attitude is almost along the lines of sibling rivalry. Add to it the fact that both countries are joined at the wallet makes it even more of an issue. I've never felt any anti-American attitude anywhere in Canada. I've felt much more of an anti-Anglo attitude in Quebec than any anti-American attitude anywhere else. It really is an interesting comparison when you look at Buffalo and Toronto and how they have changed over the years. At the end of the 1800's Buffalo was the 8th largest city in the US. Today it barely makes the top 50. In the 1950's people would flock to Buffalo from Toronto for entertainment and good times. Now the flow of people goes from Buffalo to Toronto for entertainment. Toronto is a huge and wonderful Metro area that is fun, safe, and pricey. Just my take from across the river.
B%B I've heard before that the crime rate in Canada was low What did you mean exactly and how do you account for it?
I travel the country on business. I would have to say the the majority of "anti-American" I have run across was in Ontario. It wasn't directed toward individuals. My take was more a defensive posture, protecting a Canadian identity. And most Canadians came to see Bush as an idiot and his foreign policies as a serious threat to the world. Regarding crime, our major cities have all seen a rise in gang activity. Crime involving firearms has become more prevalent in recent years but most often it involves infighting amongst gangs. 20 or 30 years ago it was almost unheard of in Canada. Still, it's considerably lower than comparative U.S. cities. The division between the rich and poor is not as dramatic as in the U.S.. Canada has a larger portion of middle class, in my observation. This may have something to do with a lower crime rate. Our climate is not much different from our neighboring states. In some cases a little better. Buffalo has tougher winters than Toronto, for instance. I think most Canadian's have a quiet sense of patriotism. If they look around the world, they feel proud of their country and can think of very few places they would rather live. Where the U.S. celebrates the rights of the individual, Canada often bases it's social policies on "what is good for the whole". Person to person, I don't think there are two other nations on earth who's people are more similar than Canadian's and American's.
That's certainly been my experience too but there may be some rather large gaps in their perceptions of their world as a whole Do Canadians feel themselves threatened by other nations for example? Threats real and perceived have all but defined the history of America for my entire six decade long lifetime
Good point. Canadian's don't feel threatened by other nations and that would be a big difference. However, we are on Al Qaeda's hit list and and we do take precautions, particularly with major events like the recent G20/G8 conferences and the Olympics. Canada and America were in similar positions, militarily, prior to WWI. Both had a collection of militia rather than paid armed forces. Today, while we both have armed forces, America's is obviously far greater and has major installations all over the world. Canada is active in Afghanistan and has some small "peace keeping" and aid installations in conjunction with the U.N.. If America hadn't militarily positioned itself globally where would we all be now with the threat from the Soviet Union during the Cold War? However, the flip side is that the world sees far more of the American military presence than it does of the incredible generosity that America exhibits towards the rest of the world. From a global perspective, it's hard to believe a nation is truly "peace loving" when it's military is active and visible all over the world. Personally, I think the time has come to draw down on America's military presence. That's not easy. The military and supporting industries has become an integral part of the U.S. economy. But I believe it is making America a target and the military threat of other powerful nations does not exist as it did with the Soviet Union. I've had more than one American friend stitch a Canadian flag on his backpack when traveling abroad. Another considerable difference is that Canadian's, on the whole, are far more knowledgeable about the rest of the world than American's. I think we if combined our countries, and took the best from each, it would be an amazing nation.
That's a very generous impulse and a nice complement to the USA Brewster- B & B- and other Canadians who read this forum- do you think there would be anything Americans would find odd or have to adjust to if they chose to immigrate to Canada? (I know it's possible that 4biddenpleasrs has hit them all already!)
