:evil: I am going to play Devils Advicate here :evil: ....the description of this thread states that it is a place for Job Classifications. Wouldn't it be discrimination if someone was to pick and choose which posts were allowed and which weren't...... just a thought Now back to the bashing!!!!!!!
Let the ads stay I vote that the ads stay. This is a great way to see who the bad companies are and stop giving them our hard earned pesos.
I find it interesting that I personally know of at least 5 people who work for Sunset...all of whom are over the age of 40...all of whom were hired after the age of 40. All of whom hold jobs similar to those listed in this forum. So Sunset is using age discrimination in its advertising but not in hiring? WHY? Seems they WANT everyone to think they practice age discrimination but don't actually do so? Ahem. That makes no sense. It also makes no sense that Sunset isn't doing a better job of defending it's hiring practices in the court of public opinion. An opportunity to win all of us jaded skeptics over is being lost here. I maintain that Sunset would attract a better quality applicant if their job ads reflected a focus on skills and experience rather than age.
I'm back home in Nottingham, England at the moment and am a little split between eating my own weight in food daily and attempting to revive my country's dwindling pub business single handedly. And football season starts tomorrow. So I'm trying to have a break from the forum. However, in the web site description of what this forum is about I do mention "look for a job or advertise one and find out the ins and outs of living in paradise". So I dont feel comfortable in censoring/deleting such threads. It does seem that there have been a lot of job ads lately, and I would ask that those advertising keep all jobs to one thread rather than a separate one for each position. I also think you should give a rough salary indication too. This thread also shows in some way the reality of Cancun in so far as jobs go. That will help people who think moving there and getting a 'regular job' might be a walk in the park. Discrimination is something that will be encountered for sure. Might as well learn it here on this forum rather than when you've made the move. As for the job advertised in the first post, must say that I probably tick all the boxes apart from the marketing degree (have degree, just not in marketing) plus am over age by 7 years. But am sure they could not afford me anyway
When was the last time you applied for a waiter job at Hooters? How about being a white male non-disabled vet applying at the US Post Office? Selection happens all the time when you are applying for a job. I can't see why all of you are getting bent so out of shape about a job that 90% of you don't qualify for on technical skills alone, wouldn't apply for because you don't live there, or are happy about being self employed. And if your reason is about discrimination on any level, I'm sure there are some really good things you can worry about in Mexico that could make a real difference other than this job post. Just my 2 cents.... Jamie
Well, I guess I will chime in here. Haven't had time but have been reading avidly. Excuse the "stream-of-consciousness" approach--it's 4 a.m. My comments: 1.- If I were hiring for a position and were writing the ad I would not put in the age part, but --AND THIS IS JUST ME--that is because I come from where and when I come from. Not everyone else does and that doesn't make my experience any more or less valid. 2.- Laws, usage and customs are not the same everywhere and with everyone. DUH! Oh, yeh--and at different times!! I remember ads like that in the States (but then I am older!) Not all cultures and countries evolve and change at the same rate and in the same way. DUH! 3.- My guess is that all of us have prejudices whether we call them that or not--or whether others call them that or not. In this area, for example, I prefer to hire younger people with or without a degree and with little experience because they are easier to mold and don't have any or as many bad habits and don't know it all already. But that's me and I admit it. Now maybe I would not write that in an ad, but it would affect my final decision. Maybe it is more honest to be non-politically correct and less hypocritical but I wouldn't put my prejudice in writing--but only because I come from where I come from. 4.- And the fact that one position has age mentioned doesn't even indicate a pattern of age discrimination. Any company would certainly want experienced (this means older, folks) to lead, supervise and train the "youngsters" hired for these positions. I wonder when they were looking for these people if they put out an ad that said "old people wanted." Probably not as we (whoever and whatever "we" are)tend to use euphemisms. "We" would say "experienced" and instead of an age range might say "experience not necessary" but it basically means the same thing. 5.- In reality, language is probably used more to hide what we think and feel than it is used to uncover what we think and feel. 6.- Using ad hominem arguments is common also in this kind of discussion although it won't win you any points in high school debates. 7.- Of course self-righteousness makes us feel better and certainly superior to the rest. Ya gotta love it. Keeps me going sometimes. 8.- But "The Key to Serenity" (Would you rather be right, or happy?") is that "Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today." Page 449 9.- In a country where the median age (as of July 2009) is 26 for women and 24 for men, hiring that age group seems logical. But you can't say it? I don't know. I don't know what the law is. Certainly if someone brought it up--and be sure they have--to the Human Rights Commission, then it would become law eventually as it did because of the same process in other countries. So now you can't say "pregnant women need not apply" but you can burn the flag and write and say all manners of filth because of freedom of speech. (I'm just saying!) 10.- But whether it is Hooter's insistence on waitresses of the endowed female persuasion or Benedict XVI's insistence on an all-male priesthood, and even if "no fat chicks need apply" is verboten, we still have our "preferences" (can you say prejudices?) and they guide our individual lives and decisions. 11.- My guess is that the word "discrimination" has gotten a bad rap due to we human rights activists over the years. We all discriminate--look it up. It just means to separate, to distinguish one from another. And don't we feel good when people tell us we are "discriminating people with discriminating tastes?" We all discriminate--some differently than others, but we all do it and just because there is or is not a law doesn't change anything. But it does hide our own individual hypocrisy from us so I guess that is good. We really don't want to see our own "preferences" so we look at those of others. 12.- Again, I wouldn't say "from 18-25" or "no fat chicks allowed" or "single only" or "must have thick curly black run-my-fingers-through-your gorqeous hair required" but that doesn´t mean I wouldn't think it and it wouldn't be part of my (hypocritical?)decision-making process. But then that's just me.
It is true, we do all discriminate. When I hire people I discriminate against people who have normal range or low IQs. I want them smart, smart, smart and I favor the nerdy ones especially. But that doesn't mean we should discriminate, and it especially doesn't mean we should advertise our discrimination. It's easy to make jokes about no fat chicks (unless you are one). But if someone qualified is passed over because they are gay or black or pregnant or of Latino descent it's no longer funny. Anti-discrimination laws are critical to the civilizing and ultimate humanizing of any country. If Mexico doesn't have laws in place yet, or if it has laws which don't get enforced, then Mexico has some growing up to do regarding human rights. And that's not funny. And it's not something we should brush off simply because we secretly know that as individuals we will hire certain types of people. We should all try to be better than that. I still question why Sunset needs to advertise age discrimination. It seems to me it makes them look bad. And given what I've seen, they hire plenty of experienced 40-somethings (especially native English speakers). If they want to attract someone like me, who is, like both Steve and CancunCanuck, just about perfectly qualified for this job, then why throw in the age thing? They turned me right off, but why would they want to turn me off before I even apply? Why not keep their advantage and get me in the door at least? It seems to me that Sunset puts themselves at a distinct disadvantage by showing age discrimination, I simply don't see why they are doing it. Wouldn't they have attracted a better quality of candidate by not putting age limits in their ads? I think so.
OK--my last post on this well-exploited subject. I don't think they went out of their way to "turn anyone off." Do you think someone in RH sits down and thinks of ways to turn off candidates? I don't think so. Just not everyone thinks like you do, or I do. Some people don't even think about whether they are discriminating or not which may be even better than stressing over it. As for the 3 qualified people you mention--I agree they are all qualified for a lot of job--maybe over-qualified. One was even offered work, another one has work within the group and the other is off in merry old England. And who knows what will happen in the future. RH, in the end, doesn't make all of the decisions or do all of the hiring. Is this the only company that has mentioned age? Check out ads for the local police department--not only do they specify age but also height and even weight some time! I have seen changes since I have been here. There used to be ads about no pregnant women, no single women, no married women, men only, women only, etc. Most of that has stopped. Not every country has to or probably should evolve the way the U.S. has evolved. I am still the same idealist I was when I was younger marching and protesting and picketing for all sorts of human and civil rights. I still wish for a perfect world and love to sit around the campfire singing kumbaya. I am just not as sure anymore that my idea of the perfect world is the only idea for the only perfect world. It could be favorably argued that we really are NOT all created equal and most certainly we do NOT live, grow or die equal. And most of us do NOT want to be treated equally! We want to be treated BETTER than the rest. I wonder how this ad would sound: "Job opening. People with "normal range or low IQs" need not apply. We only want "smart, smart, smart" people "and we favor the nerdy ones especially." Of course we normal IQ, non-nerdy types probably wouldn't understand we were being dissed!!
