Rivergirl said: I think I can see from this quote where the disconnect may be coming in. In posting my observations I wasn't attempting anything so profound as "painting a reality" for you, or others: I was merely relating what I found remarkable in what I'd observed, while on a visit to the prison. In that you'd heard the same observations from others, regarding these details, it should make it a little easier to assimilate. Prisons are places which rightly stir emotions in people, and no one needs help imagining the things that can and do go on in them: but what has happened on this thread is an objection has been raised to my mentioning things which may be making the life of the prisoners just a little more bearable. I feel, in the confines of such a place, any light is appreciated by those who must be there. ______________________ Jim said: I doubt those who have no choice but to be there would find this very funny.
V - with all due respect you must have been smoking something ? I know of people who were rounded up as "witnesses" to an alleged crime who will never be the same again. Once on the wrong side of the law (even as witnesses and with no charges) they ended up in Cancun in jail. There were families who could not/would not pay the pay "protection" and their relatives were threatened, beaten and intimidated for the week-end that they had the misfortune to say - "yes, I saw what happened." Cross the line at your peril- Cancun may be safe on one side of that line but on the other - one can only imagine what Free Bronkhurst's family and friends must be paying in "protection." I hope he get's out soon and I hope he goes to the worlds press with his story. There is no room for apologists about corruption and abuse of power in Mexico - it needs highlighting and magnifying for the whole world to see.
th@bvg, I can accept everything about what you said except the suggestion that I'm an apologist for anything just because I said what I saw and- witnessed by others, as attested by Rivergirl- clearly exists in the jail, side by side with whatever else exists there that is not good. As for the suggestion of being an apologist for corruption, those who read this forum know I've spoken out about it forcefully, many times, usually to encourage people not to take part in it as the minimum contribution to stopping it they can make. As for being aware of it, the newspapers are full of it, almost daily, here. If you thought George Bush evil, and I said something honestly positive about him, I would not be betraying you. There is good and bad all around us, all the time. We live with it the best we can. As to what I honestly report, that's my business: others may honestly report whatever they have personal knowledge of. That's fair.
"Honest reporting" can now be added to "giant shrimp" and military intelligence" as another of the world's great oxymorons. Every reporter (as any other human being) comes from a mindset, environment and personal experiential history(baggage). MSN news, Bill 0'Reilley, Nancy Grace, V et al included see things through their own eyes. Nothing wrong with that--as long as they and we realize that. That is why reporters--as opposed to "commentators" have to submit their "honest reporting" to a series of fact checkers, editors and political correctness police (all of whom have their own baggage, but then that's another story). And "seeing" is one thing--that might be what theoretically could be called "objective reality" (the absence of recreational herbs implied) but it is the processing of what goes in through the eyes and through the brain of the individual that creates what we call perception. And I am sure V's perception is his reality. It just doesn't need to be mine.
While we're on the subject of honest seeing and honest reporting, Rivergirl did me the courtesy of acknowledging that she'd heard from others about the same things I reported on this thread. Perhaps you'll recall the list, when you see it again. When I asked you which of these things you did not see on your visits to the jail, you did not reply. [I refer readers to the previous page of this thread.]
I may have "seen" the same things (not all of them certainly) but I did not paint them with the same rose-colored brush. -families visiting; Sure they were families? Lots of people go every time they can. It is a way to get contraband in. -children playing; Nice atmosphere for kids. "Heys let's go see daddy/mommy/uncle Ted in jail and have a great time playing!" -boyfriends and girlfriends expressing affection for each other; "affection" yeh, right. -shops; Part of the mafia-controlled businesses there. -cafes; tables and waiters; I saw the plastic tables and chairs supplied by some beer company (ironic) but never saw any "waiters." -prisoners not in lockdown, but moving about the compound, mingling with all Not sure if having some of them in lock down might not be better We may "see" the same things but not perceive them in the same way or draw the same conclusions. Agreed, some of the prisoners are in for trivial or political reasons and are not guilty (what inmate is if you ask him/her?) and deserve more freedom than others. But who gets that freedom of movement and who does not is what you do not see. And it is what you do NOT see and most importantly what you DO perceive is what makes the difference here--not of opinion but of perception. And on the point of perception--which is the reality of each of us--we will not agree.
This is just a bizarre description of one of the last places in the world I would ever want to be. Some of the descriptions sound like they should be out of a fiction novel. Specifically when describing the food that was made "with loving hands". The whole massage thing is somewhat disturbing as I can only imagine what this translates to as the visitors are left away. River you are right V should be the head of marketing not for Mexico but, for the Cartels. I can only imagine the headlines. Mexico reduces impact of population growth as the cartel reduces population in the state of Guerro. Zeta's impact on mexican society estimated at nearly $1,000,000,000 over 50,000 full time employees. Rated Mexico's #1 employer! Cancun jail adds 40 new cells branded under the Holiday Inn Flag.
John, you didn't say which part of my description you found bizarre. Here's the things I reported seeing in the common areas of the prison. Rivergirl confirmed she's heard about these things and Jim said that he'd seen them, himself, on his visits to the prison. I agree, John, that's what made them worth mentioning: anything which simply repeats what others already know is not informative. John, your statement doesn't make it clear whose hands I was referring to, so I'll direct the readers' attention back to my full comment on what I saw, as follows: That there are people in the prison, loved and missed by their families, should not be surprising to you. This thread was started about one such person, and the misfortune that befell him. Since reporting what I saw in the prison, several people, including yourself, John, have reacted viscerally to the information, by attacking the messenger with comments such as this one- I have and will continue to point people back to what I saw, others have confirmed, and have reported on this thread. In doing so, I speak for no one but myself.
i will not drink the cool-aid with you V, I will not drink the cool-aid with you. I tend to be pretty damn liberal with regards to all things but, me thinks the jail nor the people in it are as friendly as you would make them out to be. You make it sound as if we should almost be happy that Free or anyone else in the jail should be thankful for the high level of services that the Cancun jail maintains. Spa Table service Restaurant Sports facilities One thing that has not been mentioned are the check-in facilities. Is there 24 hour check-in? Concierge service for frequent customers? A frequent visitor card? To me this description of the Cancun jail is probably as representative of life in the Cancun jail as "Cancun" the movie was to living in cancun.
That's right, John, what I said is not representative of life in the Cancun Jail: it's just part of the picture. ___________________ Sorry I didn't see the movie, I might have been able to agree with you there, too.
