Steve, Do you believe in magic - in a young girl's heart? How the music can free her, whenever it starts. And it's magic, if the music is groovy. It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie. I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul. But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll. The Lovin' Spoonful Sort of a humorous analogy for trying to explain to a non-believer about the Glory of God. No harm; no foul. I still love my non-believing friends.
Interesting observation, Steve. I think there are numerous benefits a person can derive from associating with other self declared atheists. To start with, atheism is not the absence of belief but rather the belief that something else is true. For most atheists, the journey begins with listening to your own doubts regarding the religion you were indoctrinated in. I choose the word "indoctrinated" because it really is that. It is presented to you as fact the same way you are told boiling water will scald you. Everyone around you appears to believe it. The people who don't rarely voice their opinion for fear of rejection or confrontation or offending someone. However, once you accept that your doubts are very legitimate then that opens the door to discovering even more doubts. Our bible is filled with contradictions and ridiculous assertions, as are the religious texts of other religions. And consider, why doesn't anyone worship Odin, or the Egyptian god "Ra", or Zeus anymore? What of the countless other god's civilizations throughout the ages have worshiped. God's die with the civilizations that invent them. Sooner or later, you come to a decision that you cannot accept what you have been taught as fact, and no other religion provides an adequate basis in fact either. So then, the big question. Well, if God didn't make us where the heck did we come from????? The complexity of the answer to that question is staggering to great minds let alone the vast majority of us. So.... to begin with a group provides reassurance that you are not alone in your thoughts. Then it provides for a network of like minded people to learn together. "Two heads are better than one" and so on. It is continuing education. The truth is far more amazing and exciting than the fiction we have been taught. In the big sociological picture, these groups become the crowd around the little boy who's voices gather to say, He's right! The Emperor isn't wearing any clothes at all! That is what it takes for humanity to cast aside the superstitions of our ancestry. And along with it the shackles of shame and the promises of glory that are the tools of religious leaders and political leaders. The ones that start wars....
Personally the word atheist just sounds too negative for me to associate myself with: but to search for a deeper understanding of life and death- and a deeper understanding of our place in the universe- is worth the effort I no longer look to religious belief systems to provide those answers but out of respect for the younger brothers St Paul spoke of- I keep my thoughts to myself for the most part A discussion group could go in many directions- some of which might actually be useful- but some rubbing together of thoughtful people can occasionally be pleasant in itself and in Cancun might be a welcome opportunity for some ____________________ In historic times like these when an excess of religious zeal (with cultural and political baggage) has lead to violence or other obvious societal harm- such as 911- people begin to question the role religion may have played in it Brewster and others have suggested religion and religious practices are not always benign and the society has to be prepared to deal with this in a determined but constructive way when possible: one of the ways for a society to provide a partial antidote is to require a course in comparative religion in the schools so that young people will begin to see the way religion expresses the culture in which it arises Because I love human beings as a species- when they are not being dangerous to each other- I smile when I see the similarities of religious practice in Vietnam and Mexico though the religious belief systems could not be more different
Personally I'm a Christian, and proud of it I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree in a few points here. Brewster: "However, I have recently come to the conclusion that the threat presented to humanity, with the perpetuation of religious indoctrination, is more important an issue than the benign comfort individuals may receive." If you read Jesus' teachings, you'll see that it's not Christianity itself that's a threat. The problem is that Christians are human beings, and are prone to making mistakes just like any other human being. In fact, Jesus was much harder on religious hypocrites than he was on prostitutes, tax collectors, etc. (I would go so far as to say this is true of any religion... almost any religion teaches peace, but the frail humans have a tendency to "misinterpret" things, to put it nicely) Benuk: "I've often believed that a god is for some one missing something in there life, and they need some sort of dream..." I don't feel there's anything missing in my life at all. On the contrary, life would be so much easier if I weren't a Christian, but I just can't deny something I know to be true, no matter how hard it is. Anyway, not trying to argue, just hoping to clarify some things about Christians from a Christian perspective Please don't base your views on Christianity from what you hear from certain people. I swear we're not all close-minded, hateful hypocrites! (just a few of us haha) "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." -Kevin Max
Gringation, A quick bit of background. I have read the bible extensively. I was raised in a Christian home. My mother was a United Church minister for some 30 years. She is also now a atheist in her retirement. It's not that I think Christians are bad or the teachings of Jesus. Or Mohammad or Buddha, etc.. It's more like this. The more you learn, with an open mind, the clearer it becomes that there is no god. There is no historical, archeological evidence to support the bible. People believe because they want to. They were taught to. Blind faith in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is considered a virtue. We are still in the Dark Ages in many respects. The only difference between a Christian and an atheist is one god. A Christian has already decided that all the other god's and religions are not real or true.
Im not religious, but I dont know if I would classify myself as an atheist. I dont spend any time nor energy on denying religion, I simply dont give a crap :aktion030: I have met MANY religious nuts, and they all scare me, regardless if its Christianity, Islam etc. Here I have run into mostly Jehovas and Mormons... I stumbled upon a interesting quote the other day. "I believe in morality, which is doing right, regardless of what I am told... Not in religion, which is doing what I am told, regardless of what is right." Please understand that Im NOT trying to provoke nor upset anyone - just thought Id say what little I have to say regarding religion.
Maybe I'm not an atheist after all then since I have the same feelings. Churches are for other peoples weddings and funerals in my book. Perhaps I'm lucky in that I wasnt brought up religiously, so I dont feel I have anything to rebel against. My degree is in Geology so that further reinforced my position. I'm glad my daughter goes to a school where religion has not yet been mentioned at all, nor will it be. I cant think of anything worse than forcing a young impressionable child into believing a fairy story to 'save her soul' when she has maybe 80 or 90 years of life ahead of her. BTW Brewster, very eloquent and profound comments. Far too much for me to get into and respond at this hour!
I float somewhere between being an atheist and being agnostic, organized religion just isn't for me. I grew up attending church weekly and church events and church camp etc etc., but "lost the faith" when I started questioning the rituals and "rules" and judgments handed down by the church. I'm particularly put off my the treatment of women as second class by the organized religions around the world, that kind of stuff may have flown 2000 years ago, but not in my house in 2010. Before Christianity came along and stomped out all Goddess worship, women had the place of power in the world, wouldn't mind going back to the days when "mother" was worshipped over all others. ;-) This video appeared on my FB wall this morning, thought it was funny in light of this thread. Door To Door Atheists Bother Mormons*Video
Interesting quote, but it's only true depending on the person. I grew up in the church and I love the church I grew up in. Still, I read the Bible on my own every day and I don't agree with everything my church taught me. Just because I disagree on certain things, my home church wouldn't excommunicate me or anything like that. In a GOOD church, everything is open for healthy discussion, and the church members respect eachothers' differences. That's how it often works. Unfortunately, the crazy churches are the ones that get all the press.
