Ugh! I know it's a comedy skit. But I am sure there is a fair bit of truth in it - people voting based on their prejudices and what others have told them without having any real understanding of the detail. Happens on both sides too - remember the 'Obama will pay my mortgage' youtube video a few years back. It's kind of getting to the point of which side can lie the most convincingly to stupid people. I predict Facebook will be the battleground in 2016.
I'm just going to add in an observation here. The Canadians on here are saying that the Canadian health care system is overall pretty good and they are generally happy with it for the most part. The Americans are saying that the Canadian health care system is no good and that they aren't happy with their new system either. I think that it's a fair statement to suggest that Canadians are more familiar with the Canadian health care system. I have to say that it isn't perfect, but it's not bad. It's better than $1000's of dollars a month of insurance premium. Our taxes don't add up to as much premium as you guys are paying. You're not getting value for the amount of money that you're spending.
I think our tendency is to automatically compare the Canadian healthcare system to Obamacare and I'm not really sure that is an accurate comparison. I have looked at the Canadian system as being the same but it seems like the comparisons end at the system being government mandated and somewhat controlled by the government. Correct me where I may be wrong, but isn't the Canadian system run completely by the government? The US system is mandated by the government but run through the health insurance industry rather than the government itself. I have been told by my Canadian doctor clients who have emigrated to the US that in Canada the government controls how many procedures can be done a day, while in the US there is no such control, or at least I am not aware of any control over how many procedures are done a day. How are your wait times for appointments in Canada for both general medicine and for specialists? Here in the US those wait times can be extreme. One of my biggest fears about Obamacare is that we have a huge shortage of doctors in the US right now and the addition of millions into the system is not going to help that shortage. Added to that problem is that many doctors are retiring rather than acquiescing to government mandates and reimbursements which they feel are inadequate. The limiting of procedures and the reimbursements that were given in Canada have been stated by my former Canadian doctor clients as being the main reason they left Canada for the US. The downside to they're emigrating to the US is the huge lawsuit industry in the US, but those that have made the move have felt that it was worth it.
The whole thing is a big mess, that's how I feel. Yeah, I didn't like in the first place, but I've seen nothing positive come out of this so far. The problem with government intervention is all the unintended consequences. And something this HUGE, I'm afraid that, "they don't know what they don't know", also known as "unconscious incompetence". Scary.
Canadian health care is totally funded by the government from tax revenue. But it's not as if you have to apply to some central agency for permission to get an appendectomy or anything like that. If you blow an appendix or break an arm or something, you just go to the clinic or hospital and get it fixed. There's no significant wait time or list. Might be an hour or two if you just show up with a broken something. If you kid has an ear infection, you just go to the clinic again, get your penicillin prescription and get your kid fixed up. Again, no significant waiting period. The actual doctor appointments in these cases are free because you already paid for them with taxes. You might have to pay for the splint or brace if you break something. If you have a heart attack or get in a car accident or something, again, the ambulance just comes by, picks you up and takes you to the emergency room and they fix you up. This is where the battlefield triage aspect comes in. If you are in the emergency room cause you fell and broke your leg and at the same time that the minivan with the kids soccer team got hit by the bus, then you and your broken leg are going to be sitting in that ER for as long as the docs please. There is no cheque that you can write to get yourself ahead of the broken 8 year olds. If you have a heart attack, you're going to be priority in the ER. You're getting your immediate care right away to keep you alive. You're getting a cardiologist right away and your getting your scans and testing to see what they should do. Dad had a heart attack a couple years ago and within 24 hours had undergone a quad bypass. It takes a little time to figure out what they should do cause surgery isn't always the option but I thought the turn around time was adequate. There is no cost for any of that stuff other than the ambulance ride cause the ambulance is a private company. If your condition is less serious, then we're back to rationing resources again. So suppose that there is a blockage, but you're not going to tip over today. Well then the docs are going to spend their time on the guys who are tipping over today. You will get scheduled for a specialist and get your appointment etc. But if it's not immediate danger, then the appointments can be months. It'll get done. But it's going to take time. The system breaks down in the non-critical, not life altering categories. For example, I work at a desk all day. If I develop a bad knee somehow, it's going to take some time to get knee surgery. I'd be a low priority for that because I don't need a knee to earn a living and it's not life threatening. And I can't write a cheque to jump the line either. Docs basically decide who's in what order in line depending on need. So basically what I'm saying is that the health care system is funded by general tax money. You get emergency care quickly or immediately. You get full access to basic stuff like ear infections and broken arms very quickly. If you need a specialist, then that's paid for too but you're waiting time will vary with the severity of your case. And it's all covered by your taxes. There is no $1000+ bill coming from any visit to the hospital. You do have to pay for your own drugs here. But as I understand it, our meds are cheaper here. Government doesn't subsidize drugs here. So you guys really need to do your purchasing better there. We are actually just getting our medication from the pharmaceutical companies cheaper than you are. Government does have some low income programs to help buy meds for the low income people. OVerall I like the system. I'm the only earner in my family and I work a 100% commission sales job. If I have a heart attack, then my family is already in some significant financial peril. We don't need an $100K bill at that moment as well. I also think that there is overall productivity boost to society if the public has good access to medicine. We also get better value from this. I'm looking at some of the numbers that you guys are throwing out for health care insurance premiums. I don't pay that much in total income tax for a year and I make a pretty respectable income. From an outsider point of view, you are paying too much for healthcare. I don't think that the US doesn't spend enough money. I think the US doesn't get enough value for the money spent. The fact that you guys are also running the risk of getting a bill for tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars during a time of vulnerability is also very unpalatable to a Canadian's viewpoint. I also can't imagine having to choose between food, heat and penicillin for my kids ear infection. Seems like it's better to just help the kid out and leave the parent to worry only about food vs. heat. The whole thing is a game in rationing scarce resources. Our system does it based on need. American system does it based on cash. I think the optimal is somewhere in the middle. One of the saving graces in Canada is that we're the US's neighbor. If a rich guy isn't happy with the health care here and wants to pay to jump the line, he can jump on a plane and stroke a cheque to a US hospital and get whatever he wants. Our system works great for the 99%. The 1% won't have limited access to healthcare no matter what system is in place. Inelasticity of demand at play there.
Dave, Thanks for the response. That is the type of info I was looking for. In Canada you have controls on the system that are not in place here in the US. Add to that an extreme shortage of docs and some exorbitant incomes that some docs earn and you have the mess that is the US healthcare system. One point I would like to clear up though. No one is denied medical care in the US. It can still be obtained at public hospitals all over the US. The costs can be incredible, but I know of no one who has been denied health care. One other question for the Canadians though. Doesn't your VAT pay for a major part or all of your health care? I know you have a VAT, but I wasn't sure where the funds were specifically ear marked. It will be interesting to see what happens when many folks find they can't get medical care because of the shortage of docs and their lack of willingness to accept the reimbursements offered by the insurance companies and the government. So far Obamacare has had a less than auspicious beginning.
I'm just speaking off the top of my head here and don't know for 100% certain. Our VAT is called the GST (Goods and Services Tax). It's 5% on almost every end-use product except groceries. I believe that it just goes into general revenue and isn't specifically tied to anything. I know that it originated back in the days when we had a major deficit and were fighting a growing debt. We have got that back in check now tho. We were running a surplus through all the 2000's up to a couple years ago and that should be back to the positives next year. The GST started off at 5%, got boosted to 7% when the left wing was in power, but then got dropped back down to 5% when the right wing came back. Another interesting stat is that public health care spending per capital is greater in the US than in Canada. CHART: US government spends more on health care than the Canadian government. It's kind of an amazing stat. Because it says that your federal government spends more tax money on healthcare for every citizen than Canada does. Yet for Canada's spending level, all our citizens get good health care that we're happy with. In the US, there has to be private plans to supplement the public spending because the public spending isn't adequate. It comes back to the not getting enough value for your spending. There's significant waste in there somewhere. Very significant waste.
Two things - as Canadians you can claim your drug costs as a deductible on your yearly income tax returns and - just a FYI that you may not be aware of yet - In Canada, after the age of 65 you pay just a yearly deductible of $100 per person and other than a minor dispensing fee of about $6.00 per script each time you get a refill - all of the drugs you are prescribed are free. So growing old does have some advantages - lol
The seniors programs vary by province and are provincial programs. So the $100pp that your mentioning is an Ontario thing, not a Canada thing. Here it's income tested, not universal. But yeah, good point. I had totally forgot about that.
