think i got him with the "liberal" media comment- guess his inside sources and military websites, friends, and whoever else he gets his "accurate" information from failed to realize that: NO ONE IS GOING TO ANNOUNCE THAT THE US MEDIA IS MOSTLY LIBERAL!!! IF YOU LIVED HERE, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT!!! just like the liberals, when they don't get their way, they run away, call people names, blah blah blah...
That sounds like name calling to me. This thread has been 10% honest open debate (thank you for that part!). And 90% backstabbing, name calling and reactionary squabbling. I know Drew personally, not well, but well enough to talk politics. He is well-informed and open minded. He also has strong opinions, many of which I happen to agree with. He's not alone in his thinking, in fact MOST of my liberal American friends have very similar sentiments. And we are not crazy, we base our views on what we see happening, our experience and what history has taught us. You can chose to disagree. But there's no reason to call people names, or rant about "liberals", it gets in the way of true debate and it distracts from the real issues at hand. I have decided to stop posting on this thread. And not because I'm running away. But because I don't see that the substance of either side's arguments is being respected by the other. This is not a debate, it's a name calling session. It's ugly, it hurts, I'm not learning anything new, I'm not gaining new insight and my contributions are not respected. So what's the point?
river- i apologized to you already, and i meant it. i am not calling people names- and if you don't like me using the term "liberal", then i strongly object to you calling me "republican". see how funny that sounds? if history has taught you anything, you should know that in the past, when the world powers have acquiesced to tyrants and dictators, nothing good ever comes from it- hitler is but one example. you think we are picking on drew? well, when he calls the media "corporate controlled" and doesn't understand that in the US, the media is very much controlled by the liberal left (and i dare anyone that lives in the US to disagree with that), he is basically contradicting his own argument. why then should we be the ones that are spewing false facts, name calling, etc. in your opinion? clearly, when the debate turns serious, and real truths emerge, liberals (sorry) feel the need to run and hide.
Rivergirl I have not once name called, I even defended your right to free speech against Fletch, when he said that you weren't entitled to an opinion because you didn't live in the States. Furthermore, every time Drew signs in he is insulting and goading Fletch. His whole tag line, "Confusious say..." is a reference to Fletch and I asked him on more than one ocassion within this entire post to quit calling people names and to change his tag line. Something he even refused to acknowledge much less consider. In fact, I sat on the fence so much during this debate, that I am insulted that you would even consider my posts a degeneration into name calling. I am sorry you feel that way..
Rivergirl, thanks for the debate.... for as long as it lasted. Even though we dont' agree on what is going on I still respect your opinion. Debate.... even ones that end poorly have a way of keeping us all grounded............ one side doesn't trust government the other does........ like playing good cop / bad cop we keep things balanced. The government works to keep their nose clean because they know you're (and others like you) watching.... We on the other hand cheer them forward... it's a simplistic explination but I think it works. Each side does it's job keeping the car from running off the road.
like b&b and 4bidden, i respect everyone's opinion that has posted on this thread. saying that, what i cannot understand for the life of me is just why no alternative solutions have been proposed to the problems facing the US, Canada, Mexico and the rest of the world today- mainly, in this thread, the US being in Iraq. it is very easy to sit back and judge the current administration, mainly due to all the negativity the liberal media spews- it is somewhat more difficult to stand up and say " this is how we can solve the problem" or "this is what we should be doing differently". being one of the few here from the states, i do understand the issues at hand as well or better than most. i hate the fact that my country is becoming even more divided than it was in the 60's, with so many people arguing over so many issues, when all we really need to do is come together- and no, it's not an easy thing to do. saying that, it is virtually impossible for the US to be "liked" or "respected" by the rest of the world, as long as we continue to be the world's police force- but i put this question forth- if not the US, then who? someone has to stand up to the dictators, and the tyrants- because before long, something really, really bad is going to happen- and when it does, there will be no turning back. thanks everyone for some interesting conversation.
Mis dos centavos on this issue: I was born and raised in Mexico and I have lived in the USA for the last 11 years, in Mexico I was not interested in politics at all, now I can tell you what I have learned in my last 11 years living here in the USA, the MEDIA BIAS is so BLATANT that is unbelievable that people just don't get it, it's ALL OVER and it can not be denied, unless you are in denial of course, BLACK AND WHITE, that is how it looks to me. And it's getting worse by the minute, all you have to do is just watch any shows or any programs on the main TV stations in the USA, CBS-NBC-ABC-NPR-CNN on and on. C'mon, Pelosi is third in line to be President! what is that tell you? all I can say is Adios to the Good ole U S of A. BTW, I just turned off my cable, nothing productive coming out of the TV nowadays, mostly controlled by the Liberal Media, specially the news channels. So, for the Bush haters around the globe, you can have it, I hope that your next President will fix all your problems, I wont be here to celebrate..
I don't know why some people are suprised that news organizations are no longer objective. After all they are run by people who (almost always) lean one way or another. If you have a news paper with a right leaning Editor in Chief then you will most likely get things from the Conservative point of view and vice versa........ Objectivity of the press is rare these days. If you truely want to get objective news you have to read/view both/many sides of the story and work out what happened for yourself.
Here is a good one: A term that has been getting a fair amount of attention lately is something called Bush Derangement Syndrome, or "BDS." Those who suffer from BDS are so driven by their hatred of President Bush that reasoned, rational criticism of him just isn't an option. Anything and everything that's wrong in the U.S., or the world for that matter, is the sole responsibility of good ole G.W. Very TRUE..
Well said! We Americans Desire to be loved by the world and our enemies so desperately and to a fault. Yet, our good intentions will never be fully appreciated. Throughout history no matter how many billions of dollars we spend on foreign aid, freeing hundreds of thousands of others from despicable despotic and fascist regimes, and rebuilding other countries; Some will always despise us for supporting Israel, putting Pershing Missiles in Europe, being the world's only Superpower, invading Iraq, bringing down Communism, etc. There are many facets to this argument that you can choose to believe or not. Personally, I believe that America and its leaders, with all faults and imperfections (including President Bush); still combine to make the greatest nation on God's Earth…
