But if our troops were not there to begin with, Iraq would not be full of foreign terrorists right now. Iraq did not have a stable goverment at any point before Saddam and in my opinion it will not have one after Saddam. The people of Iraq can not even get along enough to have a central government that is effective in any way. As soon as we get out of there (whenever that may be) the different factions in Iraq are going to fight amongst eachother for control of the country and whoever is the strongest or most brutal will win control. If its not an Iraqi group that seizes control it will be a foreign group from Iran or Syria or one of the other lovely places over there.
So the best thing would have been to leave Sadam in power because he had a stable govenment... we'll just overlook that it remained stable because he gassed and exectued anyone that disagreed with him. K... makes sense... Jamie
Thats not what I was meaning to say. All I am pointing out is that without troops, money, leadership, etc from the US, Iraq will most likely go back to its previous ways. Does that mean we should stay in Iraq forever to make sure democracy reigns supreme whether they want it or not? I don't think we should have to. I would much rather see public schools here in the US getting the money they need rather than my tax dollars going towards schools being built in Iraq. Once again, I do agree that Saddam was horrible. But, there are lots of others like him out there in other countries that are just as bad or worse. Is it right to pick and choose which people of the world we choose to liberate?
Lambert, if you think Iraq had not terrorist before the war then you really are kidding yourself. They may not have been Al Qadea.. but there were definately terrorists there. Training an getting support from Sadam. Rivergirl, you said my statement was extreme... but that doesn't make it untrue. We're talking about extremists... they have a tendancy to be .... well..... extreme.... these are people that believe that god will reward them in heaven if they kill infidels (an infidel is anyone who is not like them) and have been taught so since they were children. It's like children who grow up learning racism or sexism..... And if religion isn't their hook then they are paid very well for their time. Fighters more than they will ever see doing anything else mostly from profits from Opium sales from Afghanistan. Your heart is in the right place. You want to see peace and that's a worth goal... but lets be practical. There are people in the world that would kill you just to see the look on your face. You can't negotiate with that.
rivergirl rivergirl said: hey- i never said your opinion was wrong!!! listen, please- for one thing, saying the liberals were against this from the beginning only shows your ignorance of the subject matter: kerry was FOR the war initially- hillary was FOR the war initially- and many others- this is stated fact, on the record. chances are, the terrorists are not going to come after you, rivergirl, in cancun. i, on the other hand, have many family members and friends in New York- my oldest niece is living in NYC- and i do not want to see some sort of "device" set off there, and kill my family, my friends again. hey- do me a favor if you have some free time- go to the washington post paper website, and check out how the federal government is moving some of their offices 75 miles outside of DC- you know why? they are preparing for the worst- a nuclear attack on DC, and they want to make sure our command centers are not taken out- so if you think they are not serious about us being attacked again, and that we can still "talk" to the terrorists and reason with them- well, what can i say- you and the others just don't get it.
Finally getting some great debate without mudslinging and name calling. I think part of the problem is that we don't or won't admit why we are over there. Terrorism is definitely part of the reason, 9/11 was everyone's worst nightmare and we need to prevent that from ocurring again, or more likely minimize the number of times that it occurs. However 9/11 originated out of Afghanistan by Saudi Arabian leaders and particpants. Iraq had very little if anything to do with 9/11. We will not go into Saudi Arabia and harness the fanatics there because Saudi Arabia is an ally of ours and we are totally dependant upon them for their oil. The government of Saudi Arabia commits atrocities on their own people at the same scale as Iraq ever did, yet we conveniently overlook this. Another country that continually commits crimes against it's countryman is China, but we no longer have the ability to call China to task and we need to develop a friendship with them. If the government would admit the full reason we are there it may be more easily swallowed. It is mainly about our LIFESTYLE, look around you, what does the US, and Canada and Europe and every other first world country require to maintain their LIFESTYLE, one word, OIL, O-I-L, it is mainly all about the black gold. Years ago we exploited the people of the middle east for their number one commodity, that being the oil. We did not bother to learn their lifestyle, their customes, their beliefs, we just assumed that our way was the way, the only way and all other ways should adjust to our way. Now we wonder why they resent us so much, why they look forward to the day when they can stand in the middle of a bus full of "innocent tourists" and detonate themselves and everone else in the bus, how does that make them a martyr. This is another example of why state and religion needs to be separated, history shows and the middle eastern people are aware of it, or at least fear it, that if we shove our religion down their throats, they will end up like the native north americans. 500 years ago we came to the shores of North America and insisted that our brand of religion was the only brand, we made war, we made false peace treaties, we gave gifts of blankets (smothered in the smallpox virus), as the indians said, we spoke with a forked tongue. Read David Baldacci's book, "The Camel Club", he has done excellent research into the minds of the people in the middle east and presents a good view from their perspective. Can we pull out of Iraq, probably not at this time, unless we are willing to lose this supply of oil and alienate a lot more people. If we want to continue with our extravagant lifestyle we need to maintain a steady supply of safe oil or develop alternate energy supplies. It is all about the oil, black gold, and whether you agree with Bush or diagree with Bush, we are all equally to blame. The fault does not lie with Bush, the fault lies with us. ...Look within.
EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS LINK- IT IS ABOUT BIN LADEN'S STATED GOAL TO KILL 4 MILLION AMERICANS, 2 MILLION OF THEM CHILDREN. IT IS NOT A JOKE FOR SURE. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/14/215350.shtml
Why is it that no one seems to understand that this is not an over night fix? I remember Bush saying in the beginning that this would not be quick.. it takes time.... Canada was in Cypris for 30 years and there wasn't even fighting going on for most of that. we're talking about rebuilding a nation here. Government, schools, infrastrcuture, fire, police, military......... and most of all..... attitudes.... it will take a generation to change the attitudes of Iraqis.... the adults now for the most part can't change.... its the children that will need to lead the way to a new Iraq.... it's the children that need your support so that they can have a chance to grow up in a better environment. 30 years............ but I have little faith that people in the USA and Briton can stick it out that long. Unfortunately we're too used to everything being quick and easy in our world
Re: EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS Interesting article, but this was written in 2004, leading up to the national conventions and stating that by the end of 2005 we could expect this to occur. It also mentions Bin Laden, Afghanistan, and other countries except Iraq. The only mention of Iraq is that radioactive material were removed from Iraq. This doesn't answer why we are in Iraq, what it does do is confirm that the Islam religion and people resent us and our lifestyles and blame us foir the deaths of their fellow men. Why do they resent us??? Figure that out, figure out how to make amends, figure out what we want to do about that resentment. Figure out how to prevent future resentment, speak honestly in dailogue with people and maybe, just maybe we will have a chance.
yes, it was written in 2004- so maybe what we do behind the scenes, that so offends liberals and groups like the ACLU and moveon.org is actually working. ok- so i do agree with you on the fact that we do need to figure out just why everyone hates us- but even if we accomplish that seemingly impossible task and get them NOT to hate us- in the meantime, should we become an isolationalist country, and let terrorists breed all over the world? so the article was written in 2004- doesn't reading that article scare the hell out of you? it scares the hell out of me- and not just because i think it's possible- think of the repurcussions if something of this scale happens; and if and when it does happen, the first people in line to criticize our government, and say we didn't do enough to prevent it- yep, you guessed it. can't we all agree that no one wants to see another 9/11 happen in this country? :?: :?: :?:
