I guess you'd have to ask yourself as well is it worth putting other peoples lives, the lives of my wife and children in harms way to appease my sense of "self", to potentially risk getting innocent people killed for the sake of a business in order that I don't have to bow down to others. If it was just me involved then I would maybe stand up and fight back, but when other humans get dragged into it through no fault of their own you have to ask yourself is it really worth it? And if you decide yes, than you're pretty selfish in my eyes. You have to pick and chose your battles in life, like a game of chess, some are worth walking away from, but you never know when the chance might come to take the king. Fighting the Zetas, when all things are considered (police, legal system etc.) is probably a fight I might, at this time, not choose to take... Check...
I do understand what V means(I think), but to me, Zetas, for example, is a "bit" bigger than "just thugs" robbing your convenience store. Going against Zetas, means going against cops, judges, lawyers, military etc. And if one looks at their arsenal, its fairly easy to see exactly why they in many cases out-gun even the Mexican Army/marines... Back home I never hesitated to jump into a situation to try to help/dissolve it, but then the opponent/assailant never had Hummers with machine-guns mounted on them, hehe. I understand the thinking of saying "enough!" and "No!", but in Mexico, today, its not always the best way to go about things, unfortunately. Ps. One person with a handgun v/s several guys with bulletproof vests, armor-piercing ammo, RPG´s(!) etc... Meeeh, dont like the odds of that, haha.
Yeah.... It is far too complicated a situation here in Mexico to just say "enough is enough". Seriously, not to be rude, but the one person who does say no is not going to make any difference at all. The problem is far too large, and he'd be forgotten tomorrow. The saddest thing is a lot of these businesses run on their own for a long period of time, and out of nowhere they get approached. It was truly frightening listening to my friends story with his wife right there with him. They ended up moving their business from Puerto Morelos to Cancun, but of course it ended up following them here after about a year under the radar.
How did I miss this thread? Sorry V, while I admire what you are trying to say, it really is not an option. It's a great movie, but it's not the reality. You pay, or you close down, that's it. There is no standing up to them or reasoning with them. As Rawkus said, "Going against Zetas, means going against cops, judges, lawyers, military etc." The resources to be brave are not there, nobody is going to back you up and you do put others at risk.
Response V, Your supposition that my comment was argumentative was incorrect. I read your comments and was truly interested in what ideas you might have. Although you have chosen to issue your opinions and then bow out of the conversation, I will still respond. I think the best way to sum up my position is to tell a TRUE story of someone that I know here in Cancun. This person owned a successful bar/nightclub in Monterrey. The Zetas approached them and informed them that they were going to open up shop in the back of the nightclub to deal drugs. They also informed them that there would be a substantial amount due to them for protection money. Just in case there was resistance, the Zetas produced PICTURES of the bar owner's child entering school. So, this person was faced with real choices. 1) Pay up and allow this to occur 2) Refuse to pay 3) Have a good ol' fashion shootout with the visiting Zetas 4) Close shop They chose to close shop and leave town. Your comments seem to be incredibly naive of the situation. This isn't a couple of tough guys in the neighborhood. This is a large paramilitary organization that has RPGs, submarines, homemade tanks, and many many many other weapons. So, even if the shop owners decided to "show courage" and shoot it out with the visitors, it is beyond me how anyone would think that a very large contingent of Zeta would not descend on the property immediately in retaliation. Having personally known shop owners in this situation compelled me to respond. I think my point comes down to this: What would YOU have done if you were them? Respectfully, ~H PS - I don't have simple answers for any of this. It is a sad situation that must be addressed at the highest levels. Corruption is central to any situation like this and until that is under control, there will be serious challenges to overcome.
This is a good article on the situation in Monterrey and how it may effect other areas. Special report: If Monterrey falls, Mexico falls | Reuters I posted it on facebook and one reply from a Mexican friend was that it will get worse and all people who can leave Mexico should .......A bit dramatic I thought .That said I was never so happy to get on a plane and leave Monterrey.
Most of us remember discussions here about the bar on Leona Vicario a few months ago. The owner refused to pay $40,000 (per what period of time was never mentioned, to my recollection anyway). Late one evening, two carloads of armed thugs enter the bar, herd everyone to the back of the bar (no rear exit) and tossed molotav coctails, killing 8. There is a more recent story that I heard about a restaurant near Parque las Palapas. The owner simply closed and a few days later, the Z's were operating it under a different name. I DO NOT know the name of the place but I did not look. Some things I don't want to know. As to what a person could possibly do, one could simply plead poverty, "I live a simple life and there is no money after I feed, house and clothe my family. Please, please, please." That would not work for people driving BMW's with kids in private schools. But there probably is not an ounce of mercy with these folks. Another possible tactic would be to get everything out of your name, transfer ownership to someone in another country and simply be an employee. I think they only approach owners, not managers, inasmuch as they seem to know who owns things, since they have research before showing up with their hands and guns out.
Thanks, Hudson, for your further reflections and now I see I was mistaken about your post. As it's been related to me, Zetas became active here in demanding protection money, mainly in the last two years, following at least two years of disruptions to their business model and subsequent dimunition of their cash flow from their drug operations, as a result of the Federal Government's crackdown on them, abetted by the civil wars that broke out between cartels as an indirect consequence of the Government's actions. To make up the shortfall, they turned to what appeared to be a soft target, the business community here. In dealing with them, I think it helps to understand that they are criminals, and have a criminal mentality but, like others who are trying to make money, they must marshal their resources and concentrate on soft targets. The idea that they will pull out all the stops to force every businessman into line seems to me to be unrealistic. For as long as soft targets continue to exist, they will continue to prey on them: resist, across the board, make every attempt to collect money a big pain in the ass and they will take other paths to riches. To make this happen in a meaningful way requires a strong sense of community and a willingness to face risk, acting in community with others. According to what I've been told, not all have cooperated, and not all have paid. An example, from a single source, was the following: the Zetas came to Isla and paid calls on a number of businessmen there, apparently saying they'd be back and the money had better be ready. Hard strapped businessmen knew it would be the end to life as they knew it if they cooperated and assented to being robbed in this way. According to the story I was told, they met together to plan a coordinated response which, it was decided, would include making a report to the Naval Authority and soliciting their intervention. As it was related to me, upon arrival on the island the next time, the visitors were arrested. Assuming for the sake of argument that this story is true in all its particulars, those who express helplessness in the face of the threat would then, perhaps, imagine waves of Zetas landing on the shores of Isla, to extract revenge. With this mentality, no problems of any serious consequence would ever get solved, and the world could just be ruled by the criminals. It takes imagination of a different kind to solve a problem like this. When I spoke of courage and resourcefulness, it was with examples such as the one given me about an episode at Isla Mujeres. There are elements in the story that contain the kernals of a solution to the problem, based in a strong sense of self, and the life one is determined to lead- whether it is to be governed by fear, or courage- and the sense of belonging to a community of people worth protecting and who are willing to help protect you. The Federal Government is doing about all it is capable of to deal with the problem, but it needs the help of the citizenry, united in a common cause. Ennumerating the reasons the Zetas can't be stopped, as some have done on this thread, is just to express that sense of powerlessness, and overlooks the human capacity to set goals and plan concerted action to deal with problems that affect all. Like the rest of us, criminals are loathe to give up a gravy train, once it's in place: stopping them sooner, rather than later, is always easier, though never easy.
Good answer V. I hope I never get in the position of having to make such a decision of what the hell should I do.
V V, Thanks for the thorough and civil response. Often times bulletin boards devolve into rock-throwing venues where no opinions are ever changed, but feelings are often hurt. Again, thanks for the response. As for my final thoughts on the subject - I have traveled to many places. Very few of those places have the abundant natural resources of this area. Until there is a ground-level uprising of people demanding that their representatives renounce corruption, the resources will continue to be squandered. This corruption breeds criminal activity of all types, and in turn manifests itself into what is happening now: insecurity on the basest of levels, life and property. On that downer of a note - I think I will go snorkeling and maybe have one of those margaritas at Tacolote that someone recently mentioned. ~H
