We recently bought a condo in the center of Cancun and have had many things to think about, most of them since we bought, because we were woefully incautious in the process, having grown weary after two years of looking and not finding what we were looking for. Thankfully, we're very pleased with our purchase and nothing has yet risen up to bite us in the butt yet, but it could still happen.... For example, it wasn't until time to begin preparing our tax returns this year (Mexico and the U.S.) that I'd even considered the fact that, although we had handed over a lot of money to the seller, the bank, and the notary, we had nary a receipt for any of it! A few weeks ago, I began asking the notary to let me have any receipts she may have, evidence that money she collected for payment to third parties was actually delivered to the intended party. [The pitfall is that until you demand receipts, you have no proof that this money was ever handed over, and one experience we've had several times in Mexico is of people taking money in trust and putting it to their own use for a time. This occured, for example, when we purchased drapes for our apt, drapes which were to be provided by a third party.] She is now collecting receipts, and preparing receipts, most of which will be dated this year, not last year, which is when we bought. Needless to say, this discrepancy on the dates will confuse tax issues such as in what tax year did we actually incur the expense. At this point, I have no reason to believe she didn't actually hand over the money to the third parties, such as the tax authorities, but suspect she didn't hurry to do it, and this may explain the oft repeated tales about how long it takes to get a property registered, here. (Our took six months, but the dates stamped on it suggest it was done after I complained to her and started asking for receipts. The authorities are going to register nothing until the fees and taxes applicable have been paid, obviously.) __________________________ Mentioned on another thread is the danger that a property will have an altered electric meter which can lead to a large claim against the current owner for underreported usage of the prior owner. __________________________ Perhaps you know of, or have experienced other pitfalls which can, and should be avoided where possible when thinking about buying in Mexico which you would be willing share with the readers.
At the time I bought, I had a Cancun lawyer who would give me notas, not facturas. He eventually gave me the facturas, but the time bomb was that he did not pay the Notario! So I took the notas to the Notario, a lot of words were exchanged on the phone, and I finally got my title. The lawyer was using the notary fees as his personal float!
Very interesting, Zina. I wonder how many foreigners have been told that the registration process in Chetumal can be very lengthy, running from six months to as much as a year!, when the real cause of the slowdown was just as you suggested. I had no title until I started requesting receipts proving where the money went. Although your holdup seems to have been with the lawyer, ours involved both the lawyer and the notary, as the notary was present when the title documents were executed. It´s easy to understand why they would be slow to forward money, afterwards, if they needed to manage a time of poor cash flow. Our closing took place right before the Christmas holidays: what better time to have just a little extra spending money, eh? ___________________ It´s often said on blogs that Notaries can be trusted because they are regulated by the government: so are the police, but nobody trusts them. Notaries simply have a veneer of sophistication added by their education and professional qualifications. They are nevertheless subject to error, and bad judgment, just as are we, mere mortals: trust, and verify still applies, for those who must deal with them. I´ve learned this the hard way, but with no serious adverse consequences, so far. ___________________ It took a month to get receipts from our lawyer and notary: now it's time to do the same thing with the bank, from whom also we have no reciepts for any of the sums we paid them. Will the receipts just be sitting there, in our file, waiting all these months for me to pick them up? Anybody want to make a wager?
If you had the proper real estate agent to help you out, they would have obtained all the receipts for you at the time each payment was made. Also when you showed up at the office of the Notary to sign documents they should have provided you with receipts for the fees collected on that day. As for the time it takes to close the transaction and get your title, etc registered with the government the 6 months is very typical and not unusual. However when the Notary submits the paperwork after you sign and the bank gives you the fiduciero you own the property as of the date of the bank receipt and not when the paperwork is registered in Chetumal or Mexico City which in some cases it has to go to depending on the bank you are dealing with.
The real estate agent was the only one that gave us receipts, but his receipts covered only the earnest money we paid. The notary was probably, as you suggest, not doing as they should, and we have no receipts, as of this date, from the bank. I still haven't called on the bank, but the receipts I got from the Notary are all over the place as to dates, as is the registered title document. We purchased the property on 8 November, and delivered the balance of the purchase price to the seller that day, but the title document shows the sale as having occurred on the 30th of November: receipts provided by the Notary for sums paid on our behalf range in dates from 8 November to 24 May, this year. It's clear to me, as it is to you, that the Notary (and perhaps the bank, but I haven't contacted them, yet) did not handle monies delivered in trust to them as they should have. That gets us back to the theme of this thread.
You are hopefully with Scotiabank and if so contact for info on the receipts Sr. David O Martinez Ortega Delegado Fiduciario Departamento Fiduciario Scotiabank Cancun Tel: (998)-8-92-04-33 Fax: (998)-8-87-17-31 If you are with Banamex, they do everything through Mexico City but you may try to contact Carmen Triay at cetriayt@banamex.com Fax: 011-52-998-881-6472 and 011-52-998-884-0236 Both banks are on either side of City Hall. As for Banorte or HSBC I am sorry I have no contact info. Scotiabank is the better of the banks or trusts due to the lower annual fees and the same time they do not raise their fees as Banamex is well known to. Also Banamex is horrid in its reputation on getting things straight on trusts and handing you paperwork as needed on a timely manner. I am not sure which notary and real estate agent you worked with but for future reference it may be best to ask Carmen Bianca for help on these matters since she has the right contacts and she will make sure everything goes through on a timely basis and all receipts will be in your hand with proper dates.
Gabesz, Thanks for the contact info. I do beg to differ on what I have lighted in your quote. My ScotiaBank fees were as follows for the last two years. 2009 - $6,380 2010 - $6,638 Only a 4% increase but it is an increase. LIke the little old lady said when she pee'd in the ocean - "Every little bit helps." But I have had zero problems with them, other than having to chase them down to pay my fees each year. For some reason they can't get the bill to me. Cheers
Interesting, T. J. I pay $440US. I have paid EXACTLY this for the entire 5 years. My fid. was set up by the developer with Banco del Bahio. Not that I want to, but can one change their fid. bank?
My fees have never gone up either, and I am about to pay for the 6th year. Methinks something is afoul with those other banks. The only "increase" I had, was in 2008, when I had to start paying 8010 pesos, instead of 7000 pessos. The difference was IVA, which I question as being applicable to a fideicomiso. (anyone know for sure?) I also had to pay 1010 pesos for the difference in the previous year. Go figure. If I ever buy in Calderitas, I'll look for Banco del Bahio.
Our fideicomiso is with ScotiaBank, and we were promised annual increases, based on the inflation index for Mexico. We opened the fideicomiso in 2010. I asked about receipts for payments made to the bank, and they had no receipts available for us: I was told to make an appointment with the bank's administrator, if I wanted receipts.
