For a long time I've marveled at how local people seem to throw money around, going to clubs, restaurants, etc. While I grumbled at the cost of restaurant meals (as much a result of having lived in China and Vietnam for five years, as anything else), they seemed not to care. I assumed they or their parents had businesses which generated an income. In recent months, I've begun to suspect my assumption, as I learned more about what people are actually being paid on good jobs here, and I have been surprised at what I've learned. It helps explain what I've observed, to a degree. It turns out that large numbers of people in Cancun have jobs that pay respectably, for Mexico. I've mentioned, before, the company in which a good friend works which has 135 employees, seven of them foreigners. She makes quite a lot, it seems, though I've never asked her, directly, but she told us of the IT personnel in her company, who earn 60,000 pesos, net, per month, and how they're restless, knowing they could be making more in Mexico City. Doctors working in the public sector earn 45-55,000 pesos/month net, plus generous benefits, I've been told (two sources), plus they often have private practices, as well, adding to their "take". The top end doctors, such as plastic surgeons, here, would have the capacity to earn far more. Anyone who's been in the offices of one such would know what I'm talking about, as glamorous assistants who appear to have benefitted from the services, themselves, come out to greet women with bruises on their faces evidencing the procedures they are going through. Teachers in the public universities don't do badly at 18-28,000 pesos/month, with the lower figure being for a novice teacher with a bachelor's degree (two sources on the bottom end, one on the top end numbers). Regarding the teachers at the top end, I was told they also receive generous benefits like paid sabaticals, including travel and per diems, and special projects which earn them additional money, as consutants. Perhaps other posters have learned something about salaries paid local people in other fields that turn out to be more highly paid, and will share that, here, as well. The numbers I've mentioned don't match up to what people in the same fields would earn in the U.S., but they're surprising (to me) nonetheless.
Some of those numbers seem WAY too high to me! Sure there are people that make such high salaries, but they are the elite of Cancun. Almost anyone here would consider 10,000+ pesos a month to be a good paying job. IT people getting 60,000 a month? thats about 4,800 USD a month X 12 = $57,600USD a year! Thats better than a lot of computer techs see in the US! (Not to mention the lower income taxes.) Most of the Mexicans I know make (legitimately) between $5,000 and $20,000 pesos a month with "professionals" being at the top end and "worker bees" at the lower. I think that your view of income is a bit skewed perhaps by the crowd of people that you associate with. There are of' course people who can "throw money around" without concern, but most can only afford to do so at the expense of not having any savings to speak of or until the credit cards are maxed. I'm sure some others will chime in, but if people in general were making those kinds of salaries, the living standards would be much higher across the board than what you see.
I would agree with you, Life. Your reaction to the salaries I mentioned among a professional class of people is much the same as mine- surprise. It wasn't until I started asking for specifics from among those I associated with that I began to revise my information-upward, as it turns out. We know significant numbers of Mexicans have no jobs at all, even among professional classes, and get by the best way they can. We also know that typical wages, for nonprofessionals, are much lower than those people with whom I spoke may earn. A taxi driver told me he'd be happy to have a regular job that paid him 10,000 pesos a month, and that he'd be able to support his family in the local style on that sum: 18,000 a month for an unmarried, novice university teacher could provide the level of apparent affluence I spoke of, earlier. I won't take too much responsibility for managements' decision to pay their IT people 60,000 pesos per month, but I would observe that IT is the life-blood of that company, their business being sales of airline tickets and travel packages, for all of Mexico, to the world at large. ____________________ We've been speaking of Mexicans, and I'll say here, as I did on the other thread, that it's my general impression, and the impression of several expats I've spoken with here, holding jobs of various sorts, that the best positions are more often offered to Mexicans, only, but.... A key, certainly, to a foreigner landing an exceptional job, here, aside from exceptional ability, has got to be fluency in Spanish. The young friend I spoke of in the first post holds a mid-level management position in her company, and is fluent in Spanish- essential to her ability to manage her Spanish speaking staff. I've suggested this before, but I haven't heard of anyone trying it: if you possess exceptional IT skills, and can speak Spanish fluently, or possess exceptional skills in another area useful to business and Spanish Language skills, it could be an interesting experiment to run a "job wanted" ad in the newspapers, here, specifying your salary requirements, so as to dispel any notion in the minds of serious readers of your ad that they couldn't afford to hire you! For some other comments about wages, and teaching jobs in Mexico, see- http://www.cancuncare.com/forum/liv...unity-english-teachers-sep-certification.html
I think your friend is not telling you the truth V. Maybe the director of IT earns that but to say the IT personnel earn 60k and that they could earn more in Mexico City is ridiculous. Perhaps because you are asking Mexicans how much they earn they don't want to feel embarassed about their wages in front of a Gringo. Maybe they exaggerate a bit out of pride or something? There's a lot of us here who are foreigners working in very respectable businesses and I think most of us would agree that what you have quoted is a little on the high side.
Without checking with her, again, you may have correctly guessed what she meant, Matkirk, because she may have been referring, in her comment about pay, to an individual employee whom I had met: he may very well have been the head of that department, and I just wasn't aware of it. Not to put any words in your mouth, but I gather from your comment that the 60,000 is possible, if we're talking about a head of an department. Always a risk, Matirk, that's why I'm trying to verify the information of two or more sources, independently of each other. So far, the numbers have coincided between sources. (In the instance of the IT person, I haven't had that opportunity, yet. However, the single source there is a very serious, mid-thirties year old American manager, who would have no motive to manipulate the numbers up, or down.) As to the accuracy of the numbers I've reported, generally, I will edit the numbers anytime necessary, based on first hand reports I receive: without numbers, I believe a discussion of pay becomes too general to be of practical use. I assume your comment is limited to the numbers I reported for the IT person(s), and not meant to include the other fields I spoke of. I know it's calling for speculation, but do you think a person in the IT field who was prepared to follow up an ad with personal visits, if an employer expressed interest, could get anywhere with that approach?
As my mother would say, "there's an idiot in every corner", so yes, I think someone who doesn't have a good understanding of technology, may foolishly think that hiring someone who demands such a high salary will get them better results than a hire who would accept less. Also, the salaries for your university friends sound about right, but educators in the public grade school levels are horrendously underpaid (although they do get a lifetime full pay pension if they stick it out for 20 years). Also I doubt any doctor could make the figures you mentioned working solely in the public system, but with private practice/consults, it could easily be done. As other references; A full time dentist I knew who worked at a local dental office here was being paid around 10,000 a month. Numerous hotel workers I know make between 4,000 and 7,000 as receptionists, and managers. Waiters at La Taberna have told me (years ago when times were better) that they could make 15,000-20,000 in a good month with tips waiters at other places have begged for pocket change :icon_lol: Base pay for waiters is generally 2,000-3,000 plus (part of their) tips I know some A/C and Ice Cream machine technicians who are paid around 10,000-12,000 a month. (which is better than average pay for such work) Most house maids I know are paid about 6,000 a month, less if they live on site and have no housing costs. McDonald's advertised starting pay at 5,000 a month a while back. (yet they still charge more for a burger than the US franchises, never mind the lower labor, insurance, and food costs, but thats another rant)
Life wrote: The point of my suggestion, Life, was a little different, and could apply to any highly skilled foreigner seeking employment, here. This is what I said- My idea was to state a salary demand low enough to dispel any assumption that the salary requirement would be excessive, something that could lead a prospective employer to not bother responding to an ad run by a foreigner, no matter how pressing his need for personnel, personnel who just might- as part of the package- bring a serious work ethic to the table. ____________________ You certainly fleshed out a number of other lines of work, here. As for dentists earnings, I haven't asked, but from those I've met there seems to be a serious oversupply of them, and those I know are working at a job of some kind, and doing dentistry as a sideline: one is managing a restaurant, and one is working in a storeroom of a large hospital. If I meet one who is working for a public institution, as a dentist, I may have a chance to find out how that stacks up for them.
My thinking is LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE. No one wants to talk about how little they are making. So who does it hurt if they brag about their income, with an inflated amount attached. It makes them feel more important to others. I just can't believe all this. I had a doctor friend who had to move back to the states because he could not make a livable wage. He was working 24 hours a week in the ER of one of the shiny hospitals and was earning roughly $1,000 per MONTH. I know another doctor who has to roll down his window to open the car door. Haven't seen this kid in a while but he is/was a waiter at Hard Rock and he said he regularly made $150 US per night. Hell, he was making more than the doctor. Something does not ring right here.
Our information about what people make is limited, in main part by our associations. Mexico is full of people who have good salaries, just as it's full of people who are poor. The range that's been spoken of here is neither the lowest, nor the highest, that exists here. My point in starting this thread was to awaken people to the fact that some people have jobs that pay reasonably well, not by U.S. standards, but certainly by Mexican standards. We can see the evidence of poverty all around us: but, out there, too, are people who live well, with middle class standards from the earnings derived from their employment, especially those working for the government, at various levels. Those who try, and fail to make a living, such as the two doctors you mentioned, T.J., tell us nothing about those who succeed.
