Another question about working in Cancun...

Discussion in 'Living in Cancun' started by Luckie, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. Luckie

    Luckie Enthusiast Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    My husband and I are planning on moving next summer, and we are both bodybuilders and personal trainers. From what I've heard there is a demand for trainers down there, but I'm wondering if it would be best to try to get a job as a PT or start our own business? Anyone out there with any insight on this, I would really appreciate your input!
     
  2. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Cancun, Centro
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    WHOLLY FOREIGN OWNED CORPORATION

    [Nothing stated here is intended as, nor does it constitute, legal advice: posters to this forum are merely sharing their impressions, and present understanding, of the issues raised by your question.]

    Luckie, there will be others with actual, first-hand experience with this who will, undoubtedly, be able to add more and, hopefully, correct any misimpressions I'm under! But, I've also looked at this question, and spoken with two different, Mexican attorneys about it.

    You could, for example, start a wholly foreign owned, Mexican corporation; then, ask permission of immigration to work in the corporation, with whatever titles you, and your lawyer, feel are appropriate to officers in the corporation (interestingly, you have to get permission to work in order to manage the affairs of the corporation). The two of you could be the only shareholders, as I understand it, making it possible to pay yourselves either as shareholders, or as officers in the corporation, or some combination of the two.

    The cost of a start up, using this method, has been related to me as between 8,000 and 13,000 pesos, depending mainly on what services and processes are included in the price quoted.

    You may run into some limitations, based on a Mexican law that says you may "employ" no more than 10% foreigners, should you wish to hire any other foreigners as your business expands.

    A not inconsequential, ongoing expense associated with operating a corporation will be the necessary services of an accountant who, understanding their importance in the system, will not be shy about setting their fees. Monthly reports of your operations to the tax authorities are required, as well as other annual reports, and biannual external audits. A good accountant not only be able to help you meet the requirements of the tax authorities, but will also be able to help you avoid running afoul of licensing, and other operating requirements.

    As to the question of whether you, yourselves, could perform personal services such as you outlined, as officers of the corporation, I leave that up to which ever attorney you choose to consult, should you decide to explore this option, further. (In general, Mexican attorneys charge nothing for consultations, depending on the provision of services, exclusively, for their livelihood.)

    If you are a Canadian person, then you have a right, under NAFTA, as I understand it, to spend time in Mexico, on no more than an FMT, to explore work options, and business opportunities, here.
    ____________________

    Alternatively, if you found a local employer who could obtain immigration's approval of a visa for you to work for them, you could work as an employee of a hotel, or other concern, with permission to do business in Mexico.

    A third option is to attempt to get immigration's permission to work independently, as a self-employed person: this would require convincing immigration that you have unique skills and education, not found in the Mexican population, and a positive contribution to make to Mexican society- a tough row to hoe, I suspect, in this case, as the city is crawling with sports clubs, gyms, etc., with lots of Mexican citizens already offering their services, in the capacity you suggest.
     
  3. T.J.

    T.J. I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2003
    Messages:
    3,045
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cancun. QR, Mexico
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I would concur with what V says.

    I would also suggest that you get the lay of the land before going to the trouble, expense and probable frustration of setting up a Mexican corporation, which you will no doubt need before you will be able to sign a lease for a place to operate your business. Therefore, my suggestion would be to seek employment with one of the many hotels with gyms/spas. As V more or less says, an employer cannot hire a foreignor for a job that a Mexican can and will do. Often the hotels will require English speaking employees for certain jobs, inasmuch as many of the guests do not speak Spanish. There are however, many trainers working in the hotels who are Mexican but can also speak English.

    If you need an English speaking attorney for a consulation or more, I would recommend Jenny Vance. Her email is JennyVance2001 at yahoo dot com. Her office number is 887-3236. If calling from the US first dial 011-52-998, then the number. You can also call that number for free from the states on Vonage.

    Good luck,

    Good luck,
    T.J.
     
  4. Luckie

    Luckie Enthusiast Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Thank you both for your replies. We are going down for a week after Christmas and hopefully we can do some of the leg work then. We are hoping to be able to train out of a gym or resort, and the we can get positions based on the fact that we are English speaking. I am hoping we can at least start out that way. I feel it would be way to risky and expensive to have to start out with our own business and all the expenses that would come with it. If any of you have ideas for us as to who we should see when we are down there or anyone to contact before we come let me know. We can use all the help we can get LOL!!
     
  5. Windknot

    Windknot Regular Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Veracruz, Ver., Mx.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I too appreciate the reply (and the question!) as it pretty much confirms what I have read/already been told. I just wonder about "a job that a Mexican would not otherwise be able to do" part of the laws.

    I intend to move to the Cancun area, and would like to be a fishing guide in shallow water. All the guides I have met so far, have been Mexican, so naturally, a Mexican can do this job. But a Mexican can also be a personal trainer! In fact with the right education and training, a Mexican can do just about anything. Seems to me to be sort of a self-eliminating situation.

    As for me, I am already familiar with the waters, and the species of fish found here, since they are the same as are found in the Florida Keys, where I was a guide for 14 years. All my clientele would be derived from the US. (In fact, I would politely refuse a charter from a Mexican, if he were to somehow find my number and call me. It would be very easy to refer him to a Mexican guide.) All my fees would be deposited into a US account.

    Given the above account of my proposed operation, I wonder what y'all's opinion might be as to what I should do, in order to get set up legally. I'm already aware of the "other" (under-the-table) approach, and to be honest, it seems the simplest, although I'd rather do things on the up and up.
     
  6. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Cancun, Centro
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    NAFTA

    [Nothing stated here is intended as, nor does it constitute, legal advice: posters to this forum are merely sharing their impressions, and present understanding, of the issues raised by your questions.]

    To conduct the activity you suggested, that of acting as a fishing guide for hire, for foreign visitors to Mexico, would perhaps be outside the scope of what is permitted on either a FMT, or a Visa Rentista. But, it seems to me, Windknot, there is always a way to structure a business to allow yourself to earn money in Mexico, legally.

    Setting up a wholly foreign owned corporation, such as I mentioned previously, is one way to do it. You can pay yourself as an officer, or as a shareholder, or both, as I understand it, and would need permission of immigration to manage your corporation, that constituting a form of work. The exact relationship between these elements is the point at which the Mexican lawyer's expertise would come in handy!

    It's quite a different matter to see yourself as a major shareholder, and officer, in a Mexican corporation, rather than as a "fishing guide," though your corporation could, perhaps, be devoted to a related activity. If there is a common mistake among foreigners coming to Mexico, it may be in "thinking too small." The special knowledge and skills they bring with them might better be applied to starting a business which employs Mexicans, training them and operating on a larger scale, than by doing the task they had in mind with their own hands- while still targeting the group they had in mind, and being very "hands on" in overseeing their business interests. I've seen a number of examples of this very thing, among the successful foreigners I've met, here. When you begin to look at things in this broader way, there are few limits to what you can do in Mexico.

    Here is access to the text of the entire NAFTA treaty, if you'd like to see what's prohibited to those from Canada, and the U.S., in Mexico. It's not a long list, though the treaty itself is very long. Even if what you contemplate doing is on the prohibited list, it may not be prohibited to a Mexican Corporation which is wholly foreign owned- again a question best left to your Mexican lawyer.

    http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/naftatce.asp

    There are many activities you can legitimately do as a major shareholder, and officer with management responsibilities, in a Mexican Corp., even if it is your Desire to stay small; and, both your and your wife can hold these responsibilities, and have these rights. Probably not among them- baiting hooks for your customers!

    By employing just one Mexican to do everything necessary to your operation that falls outside the legitimate scope of your rights and duties, you could probably do nicely, while lending oversight, to protect your investment.
    ________________

    SPEAKING GENERALLY
    I know a number of foreigners working in Cancun, with official permission, doing jobs for which they are very qualified but, arguably, so would be many Mexicans. The difference may be availability, when you get right down to it, and the ability of a given company to persuade immigration that they cannot reasonably be expected to fill the position with anyone other than yourself, at this time. Convince an institute, organization, or company that you're the one for them, and they'll go to bat for you with immigration.

    Some jobs in Mexico pay pretty well. For example, I spoke recently with one of the seven foreign employees of a wholly foreign owned, Mexican corporation which employs 135 Mexicans in its operations. They told me that, although the business itself was very successful, retention of key IT staff was a problem: although their top IT people were being paid approximately 60,000 pesos per month, they could find better work in Mexico City, and were restless. (For those of you with exceptional IT skills of a type useful to businesses- who also speak Spanish well- you might consider placing a "job wanted" ad in one of the major newspapers, if you'd be interested in finding a job, here.)

    Although many Mexicans would be delighted to have a job paying a steady 10,000 pesos per month, this would probably not provide you the life-style you'd want, here, and you'd need another source of income, or a better job. To do better than that, you'll have to have an skill set that a Mexican Institute, Organization, Corporation or large business might think they really need, if you could find a way to make them aware of it.
    ________________

    Luckie, you were right, on that other forum, to ask for details as to how the person referred to had worked as a personal trainer, as the poster had said nothing at all about the legal status of the trainer, in Mexico.

    It seemed to me that your idea of seeing first if you could get a job, and permission to perform that job, was a good place to start. The large hotels are very experienced at what is needed to get permission for foreigners to work at various tasks within their operations.
    ________________

    While what I've said here is based on information, it is not based on first hand experience. There is an excellent chance that one or more of the posters to this forum have had actual experience with these issues, and can flesh them out better than I can. Perhaps they will have something to add. V.
     
  7. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Cancun, Centro
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    GOT A REPLY, YET?

    Luckie, did you ever get a response to your inquiry, asking for further details, on that other forum (see post, above)?
    _____________________

    I've mentioned on another thread that I found it took a tremendous amount of energy and effort to get into the job market here. Part of the reason is that a fair number of people come to Cancun, hoping to find work- both Mexicans and foreigners. For the foreigners, especially, it often takes a special effort to get employers to consider them, seriously. In my case, I had to call on the same offices, numerous times, to finally break through the "secretarial screen," and to get to a decision maker. Getting "up" for those visits got harder each time; but, in the end, the effort was rewarded- by finally making meaningful contact with people who could be of help.
     
  8. Windknot

    Windknot Regular Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Veracruz, Ver., Mx.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    V....I think you might find the reason for that, is because there are so many transients in Cancun. Just like Key West, many years ago, people would show up (say in Oct. or Nov.) looking for work, only to quit in April, or whenever the weather got better up north. This naturally irks employers, who have spent valuable time and money in training this individual. But I don't know....just a hunch.
     
  9. Luckie

    Luckie Enthusiast Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Luckie, did you ever get a response to your inquiry, asking for further details, on that other forum (see post, above)?

    Nope, no reply to that one V. I was hoping for something. We're going down the week of New Year's (did I already tell you that). I am thinking the best way to go about this is to maybe send a package to the gyms and fitness centers before we go, and then hopefully when we are down there we can meet with some of them. Its a tough one, I have no better ideas at the moment.
     
  10. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,658
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Cancun, Centro
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    YOUR PRESENCE IS REQUIRED!

    Luckie, unfortunately, there's probably no substitute for being here, on the ground, to have a chance to establish your bona fides sufficiently to get the opportunities you need. In my experience, emails have been next to useless, as a way of contacting people, here, unless they have something they want to sell to you! It's probably going to take face to face interaction with the decision makers, to get anywhere.

    You could come, armed with a folio of photos of yourself, and your work; plus, a one-two minute video you could offer to show, on your own highly portable equipment, which would demonstrate, quickly, the best you've got to offer. Hopefully, you'd hit on someone at a hotel or resort with an interest in "jazzing up" their existing program with some "fresh blood," and see you as the person to do it! But, just getting a chance to talk to someone in a decision making position could prove a big challenge.

    If you had time to get it going, and a willing operator, you could give "demo" programs for free, for the guests of a hotel or resort which, over time, would also give you a chance to demonstrate your skills, temperament, reliability and perseverance. Even to get a chance to do this, could be a hard sell; hence, the need for time, here; and, until you got a job offer, and got on the path to having an FM3, you wouldn't really be free to "work" in any meaningful way.

    Additionally, finding a park in which expats seem to like to exercise might be a place where you could begin a process of showing off your skills, and attracting interest, which perhaps could, at some point in the future, then be parlayed into an opportunity.

    Most of the people I know who have made a success of life, and work, here, are self-employed, usually in some form of personal service; or, they have started a business, and this will remain an option for you to explore, if you decide to, in the future. If you thought you had a unique product, and the financial backing to pull it off, you could start your own sports/training center, and employ a number of Mexicans in it, training them in your methods. In this way, there'd be no question regarding your right to do it, and you could get it going in a relatively short period of time.

    I've been here eight months, so far, and have been in "start up" mode for the last four- counted from the first time I attempted to contact anyone, here, with work in mind- and, I've still got a long way to go before I'll have achieved what I came to do. Mexico has, for me, proven to be the toughest of countries that I've dealt with, in terms of getting started, and I've lived and worked in a total of six foreign countries, to this point.

    There may be others who post here, who didn't find it such a hard row to hoe as I have, and they can add their experiences, if they choose to, because I don't want to discourage you in any way; but, what may be implied in what I've told you is that it takes some financial depth to get started here, and the "sad stories" I've heard from expats mostly involved them running out of prospects, and money, before they could complete their first year.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice