Steve, did you ever stop to think about how many of those problems you are referring to are CAUSED by failed liberal policies? We have created a mentality of buying votes by just giving people money. Need more welfare? No problem, have another kid even though you're 15 years old. Can't afford food because you spent it all on drugs? No problem, here's some food stamps for you so you can stay strung out. The Left has always wanted to remove accountability from anyone who will vote for them. Let's lump everyone together and give them freebies so they'll vote for us. That has been the theme for the last 50 years. If you'd like examples, let's take a look. Housing? Let's go ahead and build massive apartment complexes and relegate the poor to them. Oh and what did we get? Just drug and crime infested multi story ghettos. So let's change things and give everyone a house regardless of their financial history or circumstances. Darn, there's the mortgage crisis. Some people can't find jobs so let's extend unemployment. How's that working out with people working for cash and collecting their unemployment checks? The War on Poverty? Don't we have more people living in poverty now than we did 50 years ago? Gun control? Sure, let's take a look at Chicago where they have strict gun control laws and your odds of being shot are among the highest in the US. Do you really think gun control will take guns out of the hands of criminals? As far as the sell out of Obamacare to the insurance companies, well, guess what? That wasn't done by the Republicans. That sellout was done by the three stooges of liberalism, Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. Oh, but I forgot Obama's mantra, "It's Bush's fault!"
We have all those problems in the UK. I'd guess Canada does too and so do most other developed countries, some more than others. Most 1st World countries go from a left to right, to left to right cycle of Government over a 50 year timespan - it's not anything peculiar to the US. In spite of those similarities the healthcare in Canada and UK (the subject of current discussion) is demonstrably better than that of the US when looking at the most easily compared statistics from a credible source. And what's more, it's provided at half the cost per person. Maybe if the US implemented a proper social healthcare system you'd improve the health of your citizens and save money to pay off the huge National Debt that everyone bemoans. Notice anything unusual about this graph? Which developed country sticks out like a sore thumb? Then cross refer the health stats of the 100% countries with the stats of the US.
It's rather astonishing that despite your own admission that you have virtually no experience with Canadian healthcare, you are willing to condemn it as "bush league". Seems like your angle is entirely political. Anyone who is willing to unnecessarily drive 3 hours for a basic prescription for instance, is lacking in common sense, to say the least. On top of that, when you cite situations like the Saudi royal family coming to the US, it comes across as rather desperate. No one on this planet believes that anyone leaves their own country to obtain their basic healthcare needs in the US. Perhaps as a last ditch effort for some kind of highly experimental surgery, but for basic medical? Highly unlikely. What is actually really bush league, is a medical system that leaves nearly 3 million people a year bankrupt from medical bills, despite the fact that many of those affected had health insurance in the first place.
Steve, The chart shows insurance coverage and a breakdown of public and private coverage. What you don't see is that the so-called public coverage is actually a subsidy to the insurance companies. Whenever anyone signs up for Medicare, which for most people is mandatory at age 65, they are requested to sign up for any of a number of add-on's. What most Americans don't know is that those add-on's, even the "free" ones, cost the taxpayers almost $900 per month per person. That amount goes directly to the insurance companies. Now to add to the problems with our public system we have doctors that are refusing to take Medicare because the reimbursements are so low. This forces more people onto an already overcrowded medical system. I don't doubt the morality of public health coverage, but Obamacare is a very poorly constructed program that failed to take into account the costs of the system and the shortage of professionals to provide the services. It would be like giving everyone in NY City a car and expecting traffic to continue to move. Every single argument I have seen in favor of Obamacare talks to the morality of it without a single comment about the practicality of instituting the system. That shows either an incredible lack of foresight or an incredible level of arrogance or both. Ed
Exactly! Why give that money to insurance companies instead of making old people better and prolonging their life? They have contributed for years dont they deserve better? Like I said earlier in the thread I don't fully understand Obamacare (does anyone?) but it seems to me like the system is neither one thing nor the other. A true social healthcare system would be much cheaper - both for the Govt to administer and in the personal contribution citizens would make to it if you cut out the massive profits made by companies. That's why the UK and Canada (and 95% of the countries listed above) can deliver great healthcare for half the cost. Obamacare has had to be watered down to appease all those who rely on the profits it creates and the hard core Republicans who think they'd be paying more when in actual fact they wouldn't if all the proceeds collected actually went on delivering healthcare instead of making rich people richer. Some of the figures people have been quoting for monthly healthcare insurance are ridiculous compared to the rates we pay in the UK. Why do so many people think that the US system is so much better when it costs more and delivers worse results than almost every other developed country. What is it you have so right that everyone else in the developed World has so wrong? I certainly cant fathom out what it is and why so many in the US believe it to be the case. Maybe you can tell me Ed? Is it ignorance, arrogance, patriotism or something else?
Actually Steve the sell out to the insurance companies was done without any Republican votes. The Dems did that one all on their own. So much of American politics has gotten to be like Wal Mart. It has nothing to do with reality, it is all about perception. The Democrats like to portray themselves as being all about the common man, but yet they just buy more votes with programs that help themselves more than anyone else. I don't know if our health care is so much worse than other countries or if you just removed some of the glitches from the statistics if it would change the perception. For example, the stats refer to infant mortality, but how many of those infants are to teenage mothers who have no idea about caring for themselves and their baby during pregnancy? My guess would be that there are quite a few that fall into that category. The one point that I would agree whole heartedly on is that in the US I don't think we get the bang for the buck with our health care. It is way too expensive for what we get.
I have no doubt that Canadians live longer. This isnt so much a matter of CA health care being great but rather the product of a society in the US that can make even the poor obese and the fact that the average person works longer hours and is under more stress. I dont suppose you read this gem contained in the link you posted. Translation: the WHO hasnt a clue what the hell they are talking about. Reading the methodology confirms this.
Its called observation.. Just as I do not need to step in a steaming pile of dog poop to know it stinks. Now, how long have you lived in the US and what exposure to US health care have you had? If you were from the Midwest, you would know the Saudi royal family and many other wealthy people fly in to MN to be treated at the Mayo Clinic. Its more like 2 mil and out of a country of 350 million people! So what! Do you not believe that people should pay for services rendered? Do you realize how many state and federal programs there are that pay for medical expenses? The fact of the matter is we are inventing the procedures, devices and medicines in the US and using them years before CA does. Hell, the Hospital in Kenora, ON just got an MRI machine in like 2006 when most US hospitals of like size had them years before that.
Unfortunately, it's not observation, especially since none of the words you've written here are your own. You've just regurgitated it from the Republican/Teabag Party handbook. Besides, you've admitted that you haven't actually "observed" anything yourself, and conveniently, you've failed to "observe" 30 million Canadians who wouldn't trade your system for anything. Isn't it great that rich foreigners can come to the Mayo Clinic for healthcare, but average Americans themselves have no access. Again, no one goes to the Mayo Clinic when they have the sniffles. You ask about my exposure to US healthcare? My wife and I have used primary care in the US on 2 or 3 occasions. Didn't seem to differ much from primary care we've used in Europe or here at home. Sorry. BTW, our friends wouldn't take us to a doctor during one visit, reasoning that we would wait forever or not get in at all (surprise, surprise). The prescription cost was outrageous. Let me know what part I missed that was so superior to our healthcare. My apologies, is it only 2 million Americans a year that are bankrupted by your healthcare system? OK, I guess that's not too bad....LOL!!! Yeah, I'm sure that every town in the US with a population of a few thousand people like Kenora does have world class medical facilities. I mean who wouldn't expect that? Anyway, I think most of this has little to do with actual healthcare here. It really seems that you're just mad about the state of things in your country and that this idea of being "the greatest country in the world" isn't really working out for you, so it's easier to insult and trash on others rather than fix your own problems. Can't blame you for being angry. If we lived in a country with an economy in the toilet, debt up to it's eyeballs, no real job prospects, a healthcare system that the rest of the world laughs at, and a housing market solidly in the crapper, we'd all be pretty gutted up here as well.
Every you thing posted in the above from the population of Kenora, to the Mayo clinic not seeing regular folks, to my experience with your system is a distortion on your part. So, I will no longer reply to your vile non sense. Good luck with waiting for a government employee deciding if you need your knee repaired. I will just go get mine fixed and the doctor doing it wont be some lackey who's plan B was working for peanuts in CA. As for this little gem of BS. California has a larger economy than your whole country. Canada as a country is totally irrelevant on the world stage. Haters hate...
