The problem with any tax law is that it is based on massive generalities that are often not even close to reality. For example, the magical number of $250,000 means a lot of different things depending on where you are. That income in NY City will be just barely enough to get by and have a reasonable standard of living. Give me that same income in rural Mississippi and I'll live like a king. Add to it the person in NY City is paying almost 10% of his income in various forms of state and city tax as well as a huge rent. As he or she goes over $250,000 they lose any Federal tax break for those services that they are paying for with their state and city taxes which hurts them even more. When Obama was running and making his broad general statements about those who were "rich" and I couldn't help but think that his definition of rich is anyone who makes more than me. He had to create a class warfare mentality to help get elected. Much of the partisan wrangling was caused by Obama himself with his statements that everything that was wrong in the world was caused by George W and his wealthy cronies when Obama himself has been funded heavily by wealthy cronies that are getting their piece of the American budget now. So that is what brings us to this latest tax legislation which is even more debt and even more giveaways. Is there anyone in Washington with a brain? I really don't think there is one politician in that city who has a clue as to what goes on in the rest of the nation.
i rarely get involved with posts like this but for this one i just have to get involved....................and tell all what i do in fact know what i know (1) neither the democrat party or the republican party is in touch with the majority of people in this country (2) neither party truly represents the vast majority of people in this country (3) neither the republican party or the democrat party can offer real soultions to our current financial problems (4) both the republican party and the democrat party are interested primarily in the best interest of their party and not the best intrest of the citizens (5) neither party offers realistic solutions to taxes that are fair to all citizens (both rich and poor) (6) neither party will present candidates in the near or distant future capable of making changes which actually improve current issues (7) both parites are far more interested in using catch phrases such as "rich" and "welfare" to win votes instead of working towards real solutions to the problems (8) our present tax system is a fucking joke - a third grader in a special education school could figure out a flat tax system more fair than this idiotic mess............................that in fact I DO KNOW the best rob ps - while we are at it...............could somebody step up to the plate and turn on that global warmng switch i have been hearing about for 20 years - i am freezing my ass off these days
Rob, I agree with almost everything you said. My only disagreement is that a flat tax would be the most unfair kind of tax there is. The reason the tax code is so complex is that it is an attempt (and I grant you a feeble one) to make the code fair. The problem with the tax code is that there are so many "social" or business incentives that get laced into the code that make it a joke. Environmentalist scream about global warming so we have energy efficient incentives and hybrid auto incentives for cars made overseas. We have tax credits for taxes paid overseas so that the US companies don't pay taxes twice, but usually it results in the US company only paying taxes overseas. Years ago there was a piece of tax legislation that was related to the oil industry. When you read the law you couldn't help but laugh when at the end of the law it said that this law applies to everyone but Phillips Petroleum. I always thought we were supposed to guaranteed equal protection under the law. Would a flat tax eliminate that sort of garbage? Yep, for about 10 minutes. Whenever I was in MA or SC I asked how could the people keep on electing jokes like Teddy Kennedy and Strom Thurmond. The response was always the same....they bring money home. Flat tax? Probably not in the lifetime of anyone who reads this board. This proposed tax compromise is just loaded with stupidity and trade offs. We have incentives for corn energy courtesy of the Senator from Iowa, we have incentives for wind and solar coutesy of the wind and solar lobby, we have a mandatory cut in social security taxes that is beyond stupid and courtesy of the Democratic party, we have no increase in taxes for the rich courtesy of the Republican party, and the list goes on and on. I don't think there is anyone in Washington who really has a clue about the trouble we are in and this proposed legislation sure as hell doesn't change my mind.
with all due respect ed :bowdown: i have a very difficult time understanding how any change to the present manner in which this government takes money from its citizens to pay for it well manifested blunders could be labeled unfair, unjust..........................or better yet - ill advised i mean really? we might want to take another long look at the present beuaracratic evil monster we have had to created. created simply because of this lovely way of unjust taxation we have created and all bitch about incessantly while i am not a complete simpleton and i do understand the basic complexities of a flat tax system.............im about to the point to where i say...........its ten times more fair and a million times less complex than this present mess............and given the choice between the tax system currently in place and a flat tax ...................i take da flat tax and a enema any day of the week :wink3: your libertarain friend rob
Rob, You and I agree on a lot of things but I do have specific reasons for not liking the flat tax and those reasons are not based on what I do for a living. Here's the reasons I think a flat tax is ill advised at a minimum and devastating being a strong possibility. Right now the majority of taxes are being paid by the top 5% of all earners. If we went to a flat tax the burden of those taxes would be borne across the board by all taxpayers. In other words the reduction of taxes on the top wage earners would have to be made up by all other taxpayers. The effect on the middle and lower end of the earning spectrum would be horrific to say the least. The second biggest reason that I think a flat tax is a bad idea is that many people depend on those deductions that are part of the tax code. For example state and local taxes and mortgage interest. Every time I've done an analysis for a client on the possibility of their purchasing a home a major part of that analysis comes down to the tax savings from their mortgage interest and their real estate taxes. Rightfully or wrongfully, those subsidies are part of our society and their elimination would be devastating to our economy. How about the exemption for dependents? The loss of that deduction would be tough on a lot of families. What about those with massive medical expenses? Where would they be without those deductions? A flat tax is a lot like communism. It sounds good, but from a practical standpoint it doesn't work.
And why does it really matter to you how I, a U.S. citizen, vote in my national elections? I could not care less how you vote in Canada. You have a government that is continuing to bow down to the crown. Just keep doing as you are told and you'll be just fine.:icon_wink::uk1:
That "Crown" we bow down to is usually south of us. And there is more American politics on TV than hockey games. Like it or not, the government you elect has a dramatic effect on the rest of the world. The rest of us, downtrodden, oppressed poor souls, on the planet are just so darn fascinated by the only truly free nation on Earth.
Whether we like to admit it or not, we have become the most dominant society on this planet and our politics does have an effect on almost every nation on this rock. Canada and the US are very much entwined in each others' culture, language, and heritage. When you live here on the border as we do you quickly learn that what we do has an effect on them and for us here on the border, what happens in Canada has a profound effect on us. For example, the increase in lumber prices is a direct result of a tariff on Canadian lumber. Without that Canadian lumber we would be seeing major increases in the cost of building here in the US. The rest of the world is stuck with our dumb choices and what's even worse they don't have a thing to say about it!
Well said, Ed. I think the tariff on soft wood lumber came about because the U.S. believed the industry in Canada was subsidized, something our government argues. Now we both lose. Lumber towns all over Canada are becoming ghost towns with the mills pretty much shut down. Though Canada has only a tenth of the population of the U.S. the decisions our government makes can have a substantial impact on U.S. lives. When "W" decided to change the dates on Standard and Daylight Savings time, we followed suit. Otherwise business dealings right across our nations would have been dramatically effected. Not sure if Mexico did the same?
