it's always a choice... fly or don't fly. (edit - that was supposed to be to the point but not rude) the government has always had the ability to take away your rights. All you need is to have someone accuse you or suspect you of a crime. Your freedom of movement will be limited while you're in jail. you'll get strip searched when you go in. Your visitors will get searched when they come to see you. There are places you aren't allowed to go, items you're not allowed to own, things you can't do. The majority of people just don't want it to be held up. Convenience is what the majority of people are about and it's not going to get better. If the process is faster they will accept it almost every time. In a world where you can find naked picks of people online in milliseconds, your worries about "naked" scans are really not going to hold any water.
It's not just at airports... courthouses and federal buildings too... and I'd bet soon, schools and plenty of other places will have them as well... Exactly, if people don't resist the government will take them ALL away... rights are always taken away slowly, one thing at a time, and always with the same justification, for public safety.... It's not about nakedness (at least for me) it's the principle that the the government can do whatever it wants and people don't fight for their rights more... Anyway I'm done, we're not going to agree here.. time for turkey :clappyinghappy:
see that's what I don't get.......... people are more afraid of the government than the terrorists. What about my right to travel safely. To be confident that someone isn't carrying a bomb onto the plane? or courthouse, etc. How many terrorist attack will it take before you decide that maybe you need tighter security?
I'm not afraid of the government more than terrorists, and afraid that if we keep allowing our rights and civil liberties to be chipped away in the name of "security" eventually we'll wake up on day and realize the US has turned into a country like N. Korea where so much as thinking ill of a government policy will get you and your family disappeared with the government controlling every aspect of daily life. That might make me sound like a conspiracy nut, but I really do have a sense that the US is on a one-way course to becoming a giant totalitarian police state.... Common sense tells us that we're way more likely to die in a car wreck than a terrorist attack, yet we hop into cars every single day without much thought.... planes would have to start falling out of the sky by the thousands to even get close to the number of traffic deaths that occur every single day... so you have to ask yourself is the level of fear and concern over terrorists attacking planes really justified and worth giving up your freedoms? Not to suggest we should do nothing, but it needs to be balanced and effective security, not the circus that's going on in the US today. On the scanner issue, part of me can understand the (wishful) thinking that it's a necessary evil to try and prevent another attack on an airplane. (ignoring for a moment that most experts think the scanners are useless in detecting the sorts of bombs that terrorists are likely to use) Everyone want to be safe from the one in a billion risk of being a victim of a terrorist attack, however you have to ask where the "line" is between safety and freedom. I would have said that line was at the strip searching of the general public, but as we can see that's already becoming commonplace with the aid of modern technology. So now I wonder how far it will go... the idea of governments implanting chips in peoples has been science fiction for years, but it might be surprisingly close to reality... with the government making the argument that it will make everyone safe, and protect the children, etc... if big brother knows where everyone is (and when the technology permits, what they're thinking) at all times, and then of' course by that point you really are just a sheep under the control of your masters.... I just get a bad feeling about the road we're on... and this seems like as good an issue as any to try and put the brakes on a little... call me old fashioned, but I'd like to keep some freedom of movement and thought as well as some privacy if you don't mind... Edit: This is how things should be done, quietly and intelligently to target those who are the real danger... http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/27/oregon.bomb.plot/
Wife and I zipped thru one of these scanners last summer...No big deal. Frankly, considering the "underwear bomber" almost blew up that plane over Detroit just last December, these scanners are fine with me. Just looking at my wife on an airplane makes me glad we have measures in place. After all, the only thing that kept that bomber from killing all those fliers was his own gross incompetence...period.
Life, Actually the new body scanners are the most complete way to detect the type of explosives an underwear bomber might use. We would do well to take this same poll of the passengers who were actually on that Christmas flight last year into Detroit. I suspect they are in full favor of these scanners. I and my sons are employed in all aspects of intelligence,protection, and deterrence in many federal agencies and I can assure you the threat of terrorism to each of us on airplanes, in subways, in malls or on trains is MUCH more imminent than you can imagine...We downplay the threats publicly so as not to hamper a struggling economy. Go through the new scanners, then order yourself a nice Pina Colada so you will be ready for the Sexy Pool....! My wife and I ALWAYS thank each TSA person we meet for helping keep us alive...
I have no doubt about that... there are millions of people around the world that would absolutely love to disrupt and terrorize the US, and honestly when I think of all the "soft targets" that are ripe for the taking it's amazing that we haven't been hit more... I'm sure that the excellent intelligence work like that, that prevented the guy in Oregon from setting off a bomb just the other day has no small part in that. But I also don't want the terrorists to win by making us give up all of our rights in fear of the potential attack. As I pointed out, it seems a little silly to me to be so scared of "terrorists" when your chances of being killed in a car wreck are so much higher, but of' course people tend to be easily alarmed and such a galvanizing event like 9/11 leaves a lasting impression, and that's what the terrorists are counting on. I hate racism, but I have to join the "we should profile" crowd when it comes to a common sense approach to the current threats since they are mostly originating from a certain group. Yes, the little old lady might have a bomb stuffed in her bra but it's a whole lot more likely the guy from Yemen behind her is the one that should be looked at, but the current circus and political correctness, has us too scared to search him for fear of being called racist and sued... which clearly is counterproductive... IMHO We can't live our lives in fear, and we shouldn't let fear of a possible attack somewhere, at sometime, on something, empower the government to become too powerful. I'm not sure how I can put that into words any better, absolute power corrupts absolutely, we can't give the government unchecked power to act against it's own people if we want to be a "free" society, and I think that the boundaries being crossed in the name of (pseudo) security these days are just the start of things to come... personal freedom vs. security is hard balance to find I'll admit.. I just think the US is leaning too much towards being a police state these days.
I have no problem with the scanners or the TSA for that matter. If anyone wants to look at me I don't care, but then again I played Naked tequila volleyball and lost so I guess that sums up MY modesty!!
Life, there is a difference between being afraid and taking the steps needed to be safe. The terrorists only win if you stop living your life. Airport scanners won't do that. As an outsider looking in the USA is a LOOOONG way from 1984 and chipping their people. You're right though that giving up too much freedom is bad, but I think you'll find that the majority of American's are more than willing to go through scanners in order to fly a little safer. As BillS said.. I'm sure the threat of another attack is a lot closer than you think. Hell, here in Canada it is a lot closer than the majority of Canadian's think. Does that mean people should run scared? No.. but at least we need to take steps to mitigate the risks.
Life, AS 4bidden just wrote, our rights as Americans are basically unchanged. We still move about freely and unencumbered as always. As for not living in fear, I don't. When I get on a plane I feel confident none of my fellow passengers or the luggage stowed below is dangerous. Can I respectfully submit to you that, as a Canadian, you are as blissfully naive and unaffected as we were before Sept' 11th?? After all, the official response to us after 9-11 from the Israeli gov't was simply "welcome to the club". Let me reiterate: The threat of terrorism is much likelier than you think. We in intel op's do not publish every successful intervention because it would compromise our methods of intelligence gathering. Understand?
