So far as I can remember, Life, you and I are the only ones who've ever taken up this issue on this forum. The "war on drugs" is just one more of the seemingly dead end policies adopted by the U.S., and foisted on the rest of the world, in my lifetime. The more than one million in U.S. prisons, many of whom did little more than facilitate their countrymen getting high, is testimony to the ineffectiveness of this approach. Why we can't try something new, is a mystery to me. And, "4", I can imagine the pain of a family member being involved in the drug trade, or addicted, but surely medical solutions, even when they involve involuntary commitments, are preferable to penal. ____________________ We had a big ol' "religion" thread on this forum, but my gripe with religion is that they all seem to concern themselves with the trivial sins- getting high, getting laid, pale in comparison to the sin involved in dropping bombs on innocent people, whether those bombs are carried in a suicide vest or dropped from a B-52.
In the US we can't even get along with ourselves. Until we find a way to deal with the I got mine screw everyone else factor it wont happen.
Well, I'm not in the best position to say as we've lived in Mexico since 2004 although we do go back annually for a month and I keep a close eye on the news and contact with friends and family. The main disadvantage as I see it, is loss of national identity due to immigration. Firstly, we have lots of non EU asylum seekers (most of whom travel through several safe countries to arrive there). Unlike the US we dont detain asylum seekers and many just drift off into society. Add to that we also now have unrestricted legal migration from EU countries - this is great that it's easier for a high skilled EU worker to come over and compete in the job market and great for Brits to be able to do same there, although our general distaste for learning another language and high skilled Euros propensity to learn English means the balance isnt anywhere near equal. But of course what happens is that it's the poorer countries such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, Balkans (and likely soon to be Turkey who have a population of 73 million compared to the UK at 61 million) who form the bulk of EU immigration and that many have little to offer the job market. Many arrive without a bean to their name and end up being supported (entitlement to benefits, healthcare, schooling) rather than contributing. You wont find many Brits moving to Lithuania for the benefits and healthcare. There are other EU immigrants who are very hard working also. Of those that are skilled the building trade comes to mind - with the Polish willing to do the same for less but often to a much poorer standard which has resulted in many long established UK businesses going to the wall. Sadly, many sleep 4 to a room and their wages go straight back home to their family. As a father of two I cant say I wouldnt do the same if I were in their position, so I cant really blame them. And we have people like myself who have moved abroad, last year 36,000 people left the UK to permanently reside elsewhere, notably Spain and France (this was much lower than the previous year of 90,000 due to the weak pound vs Euro). A small, but not insignificant, figure given the size of our population and that nearly all of those who leave are healthy contributors not healthy recipients. Net result is a very changing face of the UK as experienced at ground level. Whole towns have changed from being predominantly English to being predominantly populated by people from another EU country. The UK is very small both in size and population and it simply cant take this influx of people both EU and more worryingly non EU without changing into a very different place. Did you know currently the most popular name for boys in London is that fine traditional English name Mohammed? The population of London is 8 million, 16% of the whole of England. Given that Muslims have a much higher birth rate than 'indigenous' English it doesnt take a calculator to work out the way it's going. Unlike say the US and Canada, Britain has little in common with the rest of the EU even the first nation countries like Germany and France we are still very different. Throw into the mix the likes of Poland, Latvia and others - well we are like chalk and cheese. While we're supporting migrants to the UK with benefits helathcare and schooling (even free driving lessons in some cases -too many accidents because we drive on the left and other countries dont), we are also supporting other EU nationals in their own countries. For example outdated inefficient farming practices in many other EU countries are supported by huge subsidies the governments (and ultimately the taxpayer) of the 1st world countries such as the UK pay. Travel has opened up, there are now a plethora of budget airlines flying to outlying EU countries that weren't previously available. I remember in my 20's, stag parties (Batchelor parties) were at places like Blackpool and Torquay in the UK, now they're in Riga and Prague. The Brits have always travelled, not needing a passport to do so now wont change things much, but I'd bet the tourism effect has been mainly one way - yet more money leaving the country. I see the benefits of a diverse country but believe that those choosing to live in a new country should integrate to that country's way of life and not seek to impose their own. I believe that they should also have a positive contribution to give to make that country better in whatever way they can, however small that may be, and not see it as little more than a free ATM machine. As a citizen of a very different country myself I have tried to do both those things, and I wish those that choose to live in the UK would do that too. But there are not enough who do.
IMHO what isn't working is the education and job creation systems. There is a pretty direct line between criminal activity and a lack of education. But even with an education if there are no jobs to be had then criminal activity increases. Crime must be punished but jails alone will not deter crime.
I'd say incarcerating parents and breaking up families over what other "civilized" countries would consider trivial offenses, so that children grow up in broken homes without fathers and/or mothers is where the direct line is. I'm not a fan of abusing drugs of any sort, including the one I occasionally partake in (alcohol), but in my lifetime the damage I've witnessed caused by drugs hasn't been from the drugs themselves, but the damage the US legal system does. I speak from the experience of having seen family and friends rammed through that system and from what I understand a huge majority of the US's massive prison population is for drug possession related offenses. (ie: the guy with a truck load of booze and cigarettes has no problems, but the guy with a personal use "baggie" goes to jail, not treatment, jail, meanwhile the wife and kids suffer and the otherwise law abiding, tax-paying, non-drinking, church going, "criminal" will be lucky to ever get back on his feet. ) The drug laws are stupid, politically motivated, knee jerk reaction idiocy.. its as simple as that... keep them illegal if you want, but putting users in prison instead of treatment is about the dumbest, most destructive, most counter-productive, and most expensive thing you could possibly do... You could make illegal drug use a capitol offense punishable by death.. the addicts wont care! I used to laugh at the idea of legalizing drugs, but now I think that's the only option that makes any sense.. there won't be any "explosion" in use after its legal because everyone already does the crap... just regulate it like liquor and be done with it.. the idiots will still be idiots no matter what, but at least the violent criminal elements will be greatly reduced and resources can go towards better education and treatment for those that want it instead. /rant
I think you're missing the point. Just because everyone is going to do it is no reason to make something legal. If you're not going to respect the rule of law then you're going to go to jail. It's as simple as that. Don't blame the system for the actions of people. That's what's wrong with society today. no one want's to take responsibility for their own actions... it's always someone else's fault. And I disagree with the whole "children growing up in broken homes" is bad thing.... Biology does not make a parent. A child can grow up perfectly normal when raised by stable people. It doesn't matter if they're biologically the parents or even if it's a mother and father. There are tons of cases of people growing up without one parent or another and are fine. Your life is what you make of it.
My point is we've tried that approach and it's made things far worse... it's tricky to find balance between protecting the general public and disrupting society and IMHO the current system in the US is disrupting and feeding a downward cycle. Add to that, "judges" can't judge because of "mandatory minimums" and you've got the recipes for a police state. I look at the numbers of people locked up in the US and I'm alarmed... are we really THAT bad or are the laws and punishments out of control....?
Well we're discussing how screwed up the US is and why it wouldn't work to join a union.. that and I don't think there has ever been a thread here that hasn't gone astray. :icon_lol:
*L* anyway... our economies in N America are so intertwined that we're not far from a union anyway. The only thing that's really missing is 1 currency and common ID cards.
