Could we ever imagine a United States of North America; or, with less imagination required perhaps, a union of the three north American nations similar to the EU, in which the people of each of the nations would be free to choose where they live, and free to seek work in any of the three? Europe faced issues of dissimilarity of culture, political life, law enforcement and languages such that many would have said a European Union was unimaginable, but it was done, over time, as the pain of adjustment was met and dealt with. I submit we three nations have more in common with each other, or at least as much in common with each other, as those nations had. There was, and still is, great disparity in economic power between the members of the EU, and this creates some tensions, but people with a grand vision saw the possibilities in that project, and thought it worth the attempt. There are provisions of NAFTA suggesting the authors had a broader vision for the future of economic and social relations between the three countries. Now, the U.S. is struggling with two wars and the aftermath of a crushing financial collapse, but if the country manages to dig out and even begin to prosper again, this could be a subject for further consideration.
Cant see it myself. Not even Canada and the US, let alone Mexico. The EU has not made things better in the UK, that's for sure.
EU, etc. Steve, are there some ways in which belonging to the EU has made things worse in England? (You're a little closer to that question than I am: there are at least another half dozen posters here from the UK who may also have something to add, along the way.) Unions of such diverse people as has been done in Europe rarely occur except by force of arms! I consider it remarkable that is was done at all, and a tribute to those who imagined that it could be done and had the skills necessary to persuade others that it ought to be done. To me it represented, as much as anything, a way to prevent future inter-European, armed conflict. We practically can't imagine a war between these countries, now, which is a far cry from the state of things in my parents' time. Besides the free movement of goods and services between the member countries, the main advantage seems to me to be that it allows those who participate to realize all the human possibility that their individual nature permits, and this has a value that can't be measured, directly, as a rise in GDP, for example, could be. I've never met two peoples more alike and mutually compatible than Americans and Canadians, though their political systems are quite different, with that of the U.S. having been conceived by the great minds of the time (and perhaps the only time in our history when the greatest minds and talents available were attempting to govern the country- something that has not often been the case since), while that of Canada was the product of a very long, political process which began at least as far back as the Magna Carta, and was inherited, rather than conceived of whole cloth. But, I'm not proposing that the governments be merged, anymore than that has been the case in Europe- just that the barriers to the movement of people, goods and services be eliminated, and the privilege of choosing where to live and what work to pursue be extended to all lawfully within the territory of any of the three countries. Steve, I have to say that you got me to thinking about this, and related subjects, by expressing concern on another thread that those who practice Islam were displacing those of a more familiar culture in the UK, and other European countries as a result of immigration policies which allow many from the former colonies- created during a darker period of history, in which many European nations were carving up the world- to immigrate. Laws can be changed to stop this flow, because it's the law that gives permission, in these cases. Just as in the U.S., a discussion could be opened to reconsider existing law that may unnecessarily exacerbate the problem, if it's seen to be a problem. As for a union which includes Mexico, these people bring with them both a religion and a culture that is not so unfamiliar to us in the north. The border states of Texas, N.M., Arizona and California all have very large Hispanic populations, and they have blended without a great deal of difficulty over the decades I've lived to observe it. I lived eleven years in El Paso, where 80% of the professional people, and a like percentage of the rest had Hispanic surnames, and also in Las Cruces, N.M., and San Antonio, Texas, so the notion of having "Mexicans" around doesn't stir anything in me. I can remember visiting bus stations in Dallas and seeing the Mexican farm workers getting ready to move on: what struck me was how clean and neat they were, with jeans pressed, expressing some pride of appearance that I admired. My impression of Mexicans was that those I knew were not so different from others I lived and associated with. My years in Asia gave me a frame of reference which made it even more clear to me how much we were alike, rather than different. Control of organized crime is never complete, as the U.S. knows, and Mexico is now engaged in a struggle to do just that with its drug cartels. Canada has managed to govern itself relatively successfully over the last decade or so. But the U.S. is now struggling to overcome the bad luck and bad decisions of the last decade which have left the country (relatively) impoverished, practically all its military resources deployed in two theaters, and its economic development set back by more than a decade*. When both Mexico and the U.S. have overcome their problems, a union such as we're discussing could become a possibility. _______________________ *[Many would argue that the U.S. has yet to show signs of an economic turnaround: it is now four years since the housing market began its decent, sucking the life out of an economy on the adrenalin of two wars, the largest tax cut in history, and free and easy credit at all levels, most especially in the housing market. Any and all of these can be viewed as errors by the leadership which either allowed them to happen; actively created the conditions to cause them to happen; or, as in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, ordered them to happen.]
Never say never. About 15 years ago I watched a theoretical documentary stile film that talked about the future of the global economy. I know .. gripping stuff. *L* But in the end it predicted that there would end up being 3 main global mergers where countries would fall under 1 currency but still be countries unto themselves. The EU was first (people said that would never happen). Asia was next if I remember right. And, North America was the third. After the EU and Asia it was impossible for us to not merge our dollars. I'm not saying it would be a good thing... I really don't know. But anything is possible.
rdubnpk One thing that would have to happen is that the US would have to "grow up". We are no longer the only super power in the world and still continue with the attitude that we are. We have failed to address problems that continue to plague us. A recent discussion on globilization pointed out that we are mired in a mind set that keeps us falling farther and farther behind. Most of the jobs and manfacturing that have been lost are to other countries who either povided cheaper labor or updated their manufacturing technology while ours stagnated. Those jobs aren't coming back. The US needs to figure out the things we are good at and can be good at in the future and lead the world in those areas or continue to be left behind. We need to realize that social issues like "the war on drugs" are losing propositions. It is costing millions of dollars (in jail facilities alone) and thousands of lives yearly. Legalization would make the dealers moot and provide a huge source of taxable income, not to mention solve a huge problem in Mexico where the dealers are, it seems, in control of some parts of that country. Once again religion gets in the way of something that makes total sense. We learned nothing from prohibition. I think the question would be why would Canada and Mexico want to align themselves with fading star who still acts like they are the headliner and refuses to admit they are no longer the star they once were??
Oh... here goes the can of worms... *L* Welcome to the end result of Unions having too much power and not enough foresight. Jobs in the US and Canada leave the country because most unions have fooled their members into believing that they deserve more and more over the years. An auto worker (at least in Canada) makes amazing money for a job that requires very little skill. Benefits, overtime, bonuses, great vacation, etc... all very costly. So when the company, who's in business to make money, gets a chance to lower those costs by moving production to another country... surprise surprise. They've shown their greed out weighs any logic too. At the beginning of the recession before the bailouts the CAW here refused to make any concessions even though the automakers said they were ready to go under. Even after the UAW made concessions they refused. I won't be surprised when plants start moving in the next 10 years. As for the drugs.. that's just not going to work. You don't legalize murder just because you can't stop all the murders. Drugs, with the exception of maybe pot, are more destructive on a society that guns are. If you're just talking about pot then I'd suggest that you won't see it legalized until they can create a roadside test. Basically if the police can't test you for it they're not going to make it legal. Lastly, Don't count out the US as a power just yet. With all the internal strife that's going on they have the ability to help the world and destroy it. Militarily they are more powerful than any other nation. Canada is able to limit the size of our military because the US is beside us. Canada's security is important to the US and vice versa. 9/11 showed us that. Financially they are our largest trading partner. People wise, we have families living on both sides of the boarder. Canadians marry Americans... Americans marry Canadians. We are stuck together whether we like it or not. Now ask me if I'd like to see one currency..... no way.. I love my monopoly money *L*
rdubnpk Drugs need to be legalized so that the CAN BE CONTROLLED. The war on drugs is a losing battle and the statistics prove it. We can't jail half the black population and not go under from the prison costs alone.
*L*... statistics can be made to say anything. If stats said that drinking and driving was on the rise again and couldn't be stopped should we allow it? Just because it's hard to control doesn't mean you should just give up and legalize it. *L* Talk to anyone who's family has been destroyed by an addict and they'll tell you otherwise.
Here's a stat for you... The United States has less than 5% of the world's population and 23.4% of the world's prison population. (Source) and every day politicians outlaw more things and increase prison sentences to be "tough on crime"... and get reelected... just an FYI for anyone falling for that crap... IT AIN'T WORKIN! it is however destroying countless families/lives, creating more violent criminals, and costing us a bloody fortune.... As for the unification of N. America.. I don't see it happening anytime soon, there are too many issues that would need to be worked out... IMHO the EU was formed out of necessity... the smaller European countries needed a unified voice to be competitive in the "new" global economy. Of'course now when things are difficult the better off countries feel like they are getting the bad end of the deal, but that's part of the responsibility you take on when you join into any union.
