Lol... Peace, man (after making a toking sound...) Yeah, my point was not comparing Bernado to radical Muslim's or vice versa. Rather the reaction the families and community to a statue or mosque. If we started building strip joints and beer halls beside all the mosques in the West they may not like that and even interpret it as a provocative act. There is a deep mistrust of Islam in the West. Doing something that will inevitably deepen that mistrust doesn't make sense unless that is your goal.
And my point is that while Bernardo had everything to do with the murders, that mosque and the people that build it had nothing to do with 9/11. The deep mistrust of Islam is what is going to keep the radicals going and growing. Unless the West becomes more accepting we're not going to see an end to terror attacks from these zealots. When I say accepting I don't mean blindly either. We can accept Islam with out Burkas and Sharia law.
I've read and reread your comments and in your first comments you never mentioned government or military. That doesn't matter anyway. The people that died were overwhelmingly civilian. I think you need to step back and understand the difference between "know" and "think". This woman doesn't know... she thinks. It's her opinion. How is building this mosque a political statement? It wasn't a big deal until the media blew up the story and caused an uproar. If the media had put a positive spin on this no one would be talking about it. "Muslims attempt to help heal NY by building a cultural center and Mosque" How's that? Sounds pretty good eh. I keeps coming back to the same thing. You can't separate Muslims from the radicals that claim to be Muslims.
You're pretense that the opposition is based exclusively upon not separating Muslims from the radicals is a ruse and distraction just as those who claim everyone who disagrees with Obama is racist. So is a ridiculous assertion that the Japanese can blame the Hiroshima bombing on the USA without any culpability when it was the Japanese who attacked first and refused to surrender until ultimately forced to. This type of logic is faulty and clouded by a misguided liberal sense of social justice. This is what I know for sure. The vast majority of New Yorkers oppose the building of a mosque near Ground Zero, as do some Muslims. Imam Rauf has emerged as a controversial figure because of his refusal to acknowledge Hamas as a terrorist organization, which is how the U.S. government classifies the group. The imam also has been quoted as saying U.S. foreign policy was in part responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Now Raheel Raza a Muslim and prominent Canadian journalist, author, public speaker, media consultant, and anti-racism activist; speaks out against the building of a mosque near Ground Zero. http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=hdnznzZuaG Raheel Raza explained, "because it's confrontational, it's in bad faith and it doesn't set up any kind of dialogue on tolerance. How does building a mosque where Muslims murdered so many Americans create respect? I read in my holy book, the Koran, that we should be very sensitive to people of other faiths, and we don't show our caring for them by being intolerant. Mayor Bloomberg and other bleeding-heart white liberals don't understand the battle we moderate Muslims are faced with in terms of confronting radical Islam."
You prove me right every time you talk about Muslims having anything to do with 9/11. You walk down the street and see a person in middle eastern dress and are instantly suspicious. Just like some people are when they see blacks walking down the street. Imam Rauf was only half quoted. What he said is true. US foreign policy is PARTIALLY responsible for 9/11. What he actually said was this: "I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened." I don't want to post here to defend him. I just want you to understand that our inability to accept Muslims in the West is what is causing most of our issues. Muslims are the Blacks of the new century.
But a mosque near Ground Zero will not move this conversation forward. There were many mosques in the United States before Sept. 11; their mere existence did not bring cross-cultural understanding. Building a Mosque on ground zero has nothing to do with accepting Muslims. you don't think for one moment when a black person, or Muslim is walking down the street he or she may feel the same about a white person... give me a break man... racisim isn't just about white people. American or Canadian... every race has its racist. And to insinuate that it is only here your sadly mistaken...
Ian, I think you are doing exactly what you are saying others are doing. You are saying that Moslems had NOTHING to do with 9-11. The fact that those that perpetrated 9-11 all belonged to the same faith, regardless of how misguided they were, does not change the fact that they were Moslems. The fact that almost every war going on throughout the world right now has Moslems involved is not a coincidence. Somalia, Indonesia, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Iraq, and the list goes on and on. To deny that those who practice that faith have any culpability is a little far fetched. We are not saying all Moslems are evil, but at the same token you can't so that NO Moslems are evil.
Did David Koresh speak for you? did he represent your faith? I'm assuming that you're Christian. Would you consider him a real Christian? I said it earlier.... if I commit acts in the name of the USA does that automatically make me American? I'm saying that by casually calling the terrorists Muslims we alienate real Muslims. Which has lead us to suspecting even the best of intentioned people. I'm saying that by alienating real Muslims we push them away and make them more apt to join with these radicals. That's what I'm saying. We may not be burning crosses on our lawns but we're being racist all the same.
Ian, David Koresh killed his own people. Jim Jones killed his own people. These religious nuts were taking their own lives, not the lives of others. Their path to their final reward involved taking their own lives, not the lives of others. I think this is the biggest distinction between the fanatics of 9-11 and the people you are citing. The Muslim fanatics look upon the killing of others as a path to greater glory. Koresh and Jones looked only upon their own deaths as the path to greater glory. That distinction is huge. I think you are ignoring the symbolism and what it means to these nut jobs. Why did the target the World Trade Center? Why did they target the Pentagon? Why did they target the White House? Each one of those was a symbol of America. The building of a mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero is a symbol that the radicals have won. That symbolism will do more to generate others who are equally bent on destroying western civilization more so than denying them the right to build their mosque.
I wasn't comparing Koresh's or Jones' acts. I'm asking if they represent Christians. Any sane person will say no. Then why is this any different. These fanatics committed their acts of terrorism in the name of a religion but the religion doesn't lay any claim to them. It's like the burka.... it's not actually mentioned in the Koran but men who want to oppress women claim it is. It's a cultural item not religious. I'll give you that the white house is a symbol. But that's one out of many other targets that weren't. The pentagon was strategic The towers was about getting as many deaths as possible The London subways were about deaths and fear The train in Madrid were about creating fear Little known fact... there were two targets in Canada for 9/11.... one of them was the Bank of Montreal building in Toronto. Not a symbol of anything but the tallest office building in the city.
