Mentioned on the thread "What's life like in Canada" I wonder if this is not the same everywhere One of the big frustrations to me is that with so many smart people in America we can't seem to properly identify problems and move effectively to solve them: things are often misidentified as problems or partial solutions are elected which end up being no solution at all (I'm going to suggest a partial solution to one of the things identified as a problem but with the understanding that there needs to be other things done as well) All the whining about illegal immigration is an example of what I'm talking about: people mostly come to the states for "a better life" which usually translates to job opportunities There are said to be something on the order of 11 million illegals currently in the country (and they are from everywhere) but the spectacle of searching for- rounding up- and deporting this many people appears daunting as well as exceedingly expensive Why not order them to leave but with the following conditions: with proof of employment and a clean criminal record they would register with US Immigration prior to departure and be given a time in the future during which they could reenter the country to complete a process leading to legal immigration The priority order of return would be established according to how soon they could respond to the order to leave The employer would present the letter of employment and pay a fine for having illegally employed this person as well- but the fine would be relatively modest and not represent a barrier to the process for a motivated employer This would partially clean up the issue of illegal immigrants living and working in the US as well as getting their employers to acknowledge their role in attracting desperate people to come here: we would be left with the unemployed and underemployed and criminal element among the illegals- plus the employers who refuse to come clean- but we have to deal with them anyway Some employers say the reason they hire illegals is that they can't find qualified legals who are willing to work for the wages being offered: the plan I've suggested would give us an opportunity to see if this is so A great deal more has been done to attack this problem in recent years through vastly increased border security efforts- fences and dramatic increases in border patrols- but more can and should be done: hand wringing and complaining about it doesn't get it done ____________________
Immigration is a funny thing. While we don't have as big a problem with illegals as the US people here complain about it all the time. After 9/11 there was a stat that said there were over 50,000 undocumented immigrants in Canada and that the government has no idea where they are. WOW. One of the problems with recognizing illegals is that it then encourages more people to take that path instead of the legal way. Immigration is needed in both of our countries since the birth rate has been below 2 for years now. Without immigration our countries population would be in a major decline. And I really do believe that that vast majority of them are hard working and willing to do work that people born here would turn their noses up at. With all the money spent on keeping people out there needs to be more spent on how to get the good people in easier.
4biddenpleasrs it seems you see value in allowing an orderly flow of immigrants into our countries and most economists and companies that are chronically short of qualified labor would agree with you As for encouraging illegals we must always be sure that our laws allow for adequate legal immigration on reasonable terms and then have no hesitancy in enforcing the laws to push back over the borders those who are not part of this orderly process: the procedures I've suggested accomplish that it seems to me
I find it odd and somewhat frustrating that Western industrialized nations go to such lengths to appease the cultural and religious "needs" of immigrants. No other nations on earth do this. I've heard it suggested that our governments are simply buying future votes with our money. Sadly, this may very well be true. It most cases immigrants are fleeing home countries riddled with oppression, violence and poverty. They don't need to be bribed to come here or to stay. Our culture is the reason our countries are so prosperous and desirable to live in. My greatest concern is importing cultural attitudes and beliefs that contributed to the difficulties in an immigrants' home country. I'm all for ethnic cuisine and peaceful cultural celebrations. But leave the bad stuff behind. I also think there has to be a balance between accepting refugees and accepting educated, qualified immigrants. Unfortunately, you can't save everyone without sinking the lifeboat.
Yeah Brewster the issues with refugees are a little different: the laws that provide for the resettlement of refugees under international law are truly amazing It is as if the good fairy waved a magic wand and said "You've been living in a shit hole country all your life but I'm going to put you in one of the most developed countries in the world where they will provide you with food and lodging- an education for you and your children- not to mention free health care of the highest standard in the world" These are truly lucky people and some of them may actually be grateful: but that's a different issue and category from immigration generally ______________________ Some places have experienced stresses related to the cultural and religious differences you've mentioned: Holland seems to be suffering in particular from this which is too bad because the country is full of decent people who have good charitable impulses in general Holland provides more foreign aid as a percentage of GDP than any other nation- last time I checked! (I add that out of respect for your proven ability to "fact check" the assertions I make on this forum!) :icon_wink:
I do believe that immigration is very important to our countries. But at the same time I believe you need to leave your baggage at the door. It seems that lately, the last 15 years or so, Canada has been bending over backwards to try to please everyone who comes here. My opinion is this... if you want to come here then that's great. Learn the language and leave whatever issues you have where you came from. If I move to Mexico I should be expected to learn Spanish and not demand to do things the Canadian way.
4bp you apparently have an international view of the world and understand that: I've met elderly immigrants to the US who just couldn't or refused to adopt the language and customs of the new country and were coming mainly for the benefit of their children- as they saw it But I think I also remember there having been one or more pretty awful incidences in Canada in recent years in which people brought some of that "baggage" you referred to Wasn't there a murder ("honor killing") of a young girl in Vancouver or does my memory deceive me?
Had a big long thing typed... and erased it... :icon_mrgreen: Sufficed to say. There are no easy solutions, unless you're completely inhumane, uncivilized, and un-compassionate about it.
LOL...Now you have me wondering what you typed. I agree though. Ideally, we should strive to be compassionate and humane. But I don't think being a good host requires that you repaint your house, add additional rooms, throw out your furniture and buy all new stuff and adopt new routines all to suit the desires of your guests.
rdubnpk I am no expert by any means, but the thing that bothers me about the Muslim religion, based on everything I have read, is that everyone's situation in life is considered to be the result of "Allah's Will". If you are dirt poor with no prospects, it is Allah's Will. If you live in a country where the royal family controls the majority of the wealth and the rest of the population fights for the left-overs, it is Allah's Will. If your wife dies of a disease that could have been treated by modern medicines that were not available, it is Allah's Will (or you are a Christian Scientist and chose not to use them). I know that capitalism is not the cure for all evils, but at least your success of failure is due to the exercise of your own free will and not the acceptance of whatever fate befalls you as determined by your relgion.
